Who doesn't back gay marriage?

@Shadow X,

Stupid Siri and autocorrect.

That is supposed to say is somehow not a homosexual. Lol

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X - you are completely irrelavent, just a noise maker with only one irrational thought, destined to the scrap heap of history!

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@BillW,

Awesome rebuttal. I'm sure you were captain of your debate team.

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@Shadow X,

Shadow X wrote:

That means 26.5% of pedophile victims are molested by males. So, rounding up, 27% of all pedophiles are gay men

See, here's the problem: even if you're right that all male-male child sexual assault is perpetrated by gay men, you can't conclude that, because 27% of victims are males, that 27% of victimizers are gay men. You just can't. That's not how statistics work.

Shadow X wrote:

Now somehow you're going to attempt to assert that a male that wants to have sex with another male is actually a heterosexual

How about addressing the arguments that I actually make, rather than the ones you think I'm going to make?

Shadow X wrote:

You also made the mistake of comparing the total number of pedophiles in the country to only a running total of a few years of victims and you try to extrapolate that out as if that's the total number of victims of pedophilia throughout the entire country, when in reality it's only the number of reported victims over a few year span... not a total.

If that's a mistake, it's one that you made, not me. Those aren't my numbers.

Shadow X wrote:

And who said anything about this being only convicted pedophiles who have assaulted children?

Not me.

Shadow X wrote:

You also claim (and in another post state you'll give me $100, which I'm sure you're lying about that too) that the rate of pedophilia or child molestors in this country is around 3%. In fact Seto and another source stated the rate was between 3-9%.
Unfortunately you're not going to be willing to actually get his article because you'll refuse to pay for it. However, I have another article here who sources the Seto article and this is what it states.
http://www.bahrainmedicalbulletin.com/september_2011/CSA_perptrators.pdf
"In Western countries, the prevalence rate of pedophilia is estimated to be between 3%-9%."
Their source?
Seto MC. PEdophilia. Annual Review of Clinical Psychology 2009; 5: 391-407
Ryan CW, Hall MD, Richard CW, et al. A Profile of Pedophilia; Definition, Characterstics of Offenders, Recidivism, Treatment Outcomes, and Forensic Issues. Mayo Clinic Proceedings 2007;82;457-71.
I'll be waiting for you to pm me to get your paypal information for that 100 bucks.

My money is pretty safe. I'm confident that Seto said something like "approximately 3% of the population are pedophiles." What he didn't say (and what you can't provide any substantiation for) is that "approximately 3% of the population are child molesters. You do realize that the two things are not the same, right?

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@BillW,

By the way the rate of pedophilia in the homosexual community is only one of my ancillary reasons for denying homosexual marriage. The most compelling reason is that they simply do not qualify for benefits and if they did receive those benefits then they would be economically detrimental to society

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@Shadow X,

Shadow X wrote:

Oh and Joe... I'd also like to point out... that only around 3% of the sexual assault crimes against children are actually reported. Would you like me to calculate that into the numbers as well? That will really really screw up the numbers for the homosexuals.

I am quite confident that, whatever numbers you use, you will really screw them up.

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Shadow is slipping in another of his unsubstantiated assertions--this one to the effect that only 3% of sexual assaults against children are reported. If the other putative 97% are not reported, where do the numbers come from? His entire house-of-cards edifice is constructed in a like manner. There are numerous implicit assumptions such as that the rate of the molestation of male children is a direct one-to-one link to homosexual paedophilia.

This page at the web site of the Southern Poverty Law Center addresses ten myths about homosexuals. The canard that homosexuals molest children at a higher rate than heterosexuals is the first one they address. Based on his past performance in this thread, i am confident that he will denigrate the SPLC on no other authority than his own word.

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@Shadow X,

Shadow X wrote:

By the way the rate of pedophilia in the homosexual community is only one of my ancillary reasons for denying homosexual marriage. The most compelling reason is that they simply do not qualify for benefits and if they did receive those benefits then they would be economically detrimental to society

Whoa...you shoulda stuck with the numbers and stuff. This one is gonna be eaten up alive!

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Shadow is slipping in another of his unsubstantiated assertions--this one to the effect that only 3% of sexual assaults against children are reported. https://d3qcduphvv2yxi.cloudfront.net/assets/5763455/lightbox/LOLA.jpg?1340037428

A major % of these assaults occur in the home from family members - father, brothers, uncles, step relatives, friends of the family - who aren't nor never will be gay. They take advantage of opportunity and use the family environment to keep the event secret.

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@joefromchicago,

How do you come to the conclusion that if 27% of victims are male and 96% of offenders are male... that means that ~26% of all sexual victimization of children is a male assaulting another male. I don't care what kind of semantics you want to use. That's homosexuality.

Those most certainly were your numbers. You used the # of children victims in that study, said they were used from 12 states and said that means approximately 4x the amount of victims are in the country. Which is absurd. That's only representative of a short period of time. Not the entire population of victims in the USA.

"My money is pretty safe. I'm confident that Seto said something like "approximately 3% of the population are pedophiles." What he didn't say (and what you can't provide any substantiation for) is that "approximately 3% of the population are child molesters. You do realize that the two things are not the same, right? "

A child molestor is simply someone who has been convicted of sexually assaulting a child. I made it clear that I was not referencing the amount of homosexuals (or heterosexuals for that matter) that were convicted of sexually assaulting children. I was attempting to find out the rate of pedophilia in both the homosexual and the heterosexual community. Therefore using the 3% figure is completely reasonable for the point I'm making.

You see part of your argument is using semantics. You say that a male who molests another male is not necessarily a homosexual. I stated explicitly earlier in this thread, that rather than state "those who engage in homosexual behavior" everytime, for the sake of this discussion I would simply refer to them as "homosexual". The reason being that, as I stated earlier, homosexuality is a sympton of a larger mental problem. So I don't care if they have sex with children only, if they're having sex with boys and they're men, they're engaging in homosexual behavior. I don't care if they're bisexual and like to have sex with both... they're engaging in homosexual behavior. And those who engage in homosexual behavior are MUCH more likely to be pedophiles than those who are heterosexual.

So can I go ahead and adjust the numbers and prove you wrong? Or do you still have objections?

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@Setanta,

Loller You do see what source that the Southern Poverty Law Center is using don't you? The EXACT same UC Davis professor that all of you keep attempting to use. The same one who has made his living and name off of fighting against homosexual bigotry (as he puts it). The same one that I just pointed out never actually did a study, but simply handpicked a group of studies from the 70's and 80's and made the assertion that after he looked at those studies he's concluded that a male who has sex with an underage male is not a homosexual. That's tantamount to me sourcing Jerry Falwell who picks out a group of studies and says that he concluded that all gay males are pedophiles. That wouldn't fly either... and it shouldn't.

Get that crap out of here. I asked ALL of you to defend that guys assertions and not one single person has been able to. There's a good reason for that. Because it's an indefensible position to take.

http://www.childluresprevention.com/research/profile.asp
Interviews guaranteeing complete confidentiality and immunity from prosecution, conducted by Emory University psychiatrist Dr. Gene Abel*, uncovered that:

Male offenders who abused girls had an average of 52 victims each.
Men who molested boys had an astonishing average of 150 victims each.
Only 3% of these crimes had ever been detected.

The numbers come from the 3% that ARE reported. You want to claim they're unsubstantiated again?

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@Frank Apisa,

I would love to see you try. I've already made the post earlier in the thread. I'll post it again if you'd like. You all ignored it last time.

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Just for the record:

Quote:

You know, No matter what you do, you just can't fix dumbass!! *sigh* people never cease to amaze me!

And, there is a whole lot of dumbass from one person on this thread. It is funny that the only subject this person seems to respond to is this one. Damn, that be a whole lotta of hate.

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@BillW,

Do you understand why 96% of the population committing 73% of the pedophilia is COMPLETELY different than ~4% committing ~26% of the total pedophilia?

Because from your comments, I don't think you do.

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@BillW,

When you can refute anything I've said then you can come back to the big boys table. Until then go back and play with your food at the kiddy table.

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@Shadow X,

Shadow X wrote:

I would love to see you try. I've already made the post earlier in the thread. I'll post it again if you'd like. You all ignored it last time.

Not moi. I'm the dumb guy here. You are in battle with the giants!

I gotta compliment you on one thing, though. It is not very often we see someone so hateful that they would go through all the work you've obviously put into this effort...and to take on guys like you are battling.

What is the driving force, Shadow? What is bothering you so much on this issue?

Gays are people just trying to live their lives...and make their way though a complex world. They have been born with something that makes them "different" in the eyes of some...like "left-handedness" once was.

Your motivation obviously is intense; you are so determined.

You'da been hell to deal with for a left-handed person back in the day!

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@Frank Apisa,

It's not hate... I just consider homosexuality to be on the same level as child molestation, beastiality and incest. Most of you have a visceral dislike for those behaviors as well... as you should. It just so happens I consider homosexuality to be the same thing.

Of course, I wouldn't care if they just did their own thing and minded their own business. But they don't. They expect me to go to work and pay for and support their behavior out of my hard earned paycheck, by providing them marriage benefits. They also expect to have the right to teach my children that their deviant behavior is perfectly acceptable and is just as moral and legitimate of a lifestyle for them to choose as heterosexuality.

If someone attempted to do that to you but their lifestyle was incest or pedophilia... you'd probably buck up against it pretty hard as well. And you should. I'm no different, I just recognize the dangers of homosexuality more than you do apparently.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

You'da been hell to deal with for a left-handed person back in the day!

Wait Frank, I think you have hit on something here. One of the fixes for "left-handedness" back in the day was to tie the right arm to thier side, therefore forcing the child to use their right arm only. What ya wanna bet X was given the cure and he developed a tremendous amount of hate to the people who he deemed caused his problem when the ones he should have blamed were the ones that "fixed" him. Truth comes out?

X got the gay (if you are, you are - one can't get rid of it).........

1 Reply

@Shadow X,

Shadow X wrote:

It's not hate... I just consider homosexuality to be on the same level as child molestation, beastiality and incest. Most of you have a visceral dislike for those behaviors as well... as you should. It just so happens I consider homosexuality to be the same thing.

Of course, I wouldn't care if they just did their own thing and minded their own business. But they don't. They expect me to go to work and pay for and support their behavior out of my hard earned paycheck, by providing them marriage benefits. They also expect to have the right to teach my children that their deviant behavior is perfectly acceptable and is just as moral and legitimate of a lifestyle for them to choose as heterosexuality.

If someone attempted to do that to you but their lifestyle was incest or pedophilia... you'd probably buck up against it pretty hard as well. And you should. I'm no different, I just recognize the dangers of homosexuality more than you do apparently.

Some of what you said is true. I have a great deal of loathing of pedophilia or child molestation.

But I suggest that your reaction to homosexuality is way, way over-done. So much so, that I am wondering whether you are real or not...because the notion that you are just someone screwing around here has entered my mind several times so far.

But the more realistic take is that you are what you present...and Shadow...that is unfortunate, because you are way over the line.

You seem intelligent...you are diligent (lots of work has been put into this)...but you are seriously warped. You are damaged goods...and the humane thing to do is to coax you, if possible, to seek professional help to see why things are the way they are with you on this issue.

Good luck with it.

Whether you are a phony just getting his rocks off...or a damaged person expressing true rage...there is no reasoning with you. At this point, it will be mostly toying with you...and that won't even be fun to watch, let alone participate.

Have a ball.

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@BillW,

BillW wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

You'da been hell to deal with for a left-handed person back in the day!

Wait Frank, I think you have hit on something here. One of the fixes for "left-handedness" back in the day was to tie the right arm to thier side, therefore forcing the child to use their right arm only. What ya wanna bet X was given the cure and he developed a tremendous amount of hate to the people who he deemed caused his problem when the ones he should have blamed were the ones that "fixed" him. Truth comes out?

X got the gay (if you are, you are - one can't get rid of it).........

Some weird **** going on here, Bill. I have no idea of what the problem is...but this conversation with him is going nowhere.

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Who doesn't back gay marriage?

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