Why I, and Others, Constantly Rail Against Religion

anton bonnier wrote:

Quote...
"It doesn't really matter if one is in a church or not. If one truly desires to know God and to be led him, and do one's best to live a life in accordance (doing good and rejecting evils as sins to God), anyone can experience the reality of this love. It manifests itself in a strong, unconditional love to God and to other people, ususally resulting in strong emotion. When one experiences this love, all evil thoughts are like washed away. It's like being inside the sphere of divine love and perfection. One simply wants well to every person, and wants them to experience the same love."

So what you are saying is... " There is no prof, the reality that can be found, is only in one's mind, and to find out about evil, go read the bible ( that's throwing in a add for religion ) . Sorry, Derevon, you really are no help, when it comes to answering, my appeal for factual information.

I obviously cannot prove to anyone that it's real, no more than I could prove that God exists. I really don't see what kind of proof you're after. I can assure you that those who experience it don't have any doubts whatsoever about its reality and divine origin, though.

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IronLionZion wrote:

Awesome. Just don't vote. Or reproduce.

Perhaps in your search of "ignorance"....the easiest place for you to find it is by looking in your own mirror. For you just proved that you have plenty of it yourself.

Lighten up ILZ. You will never go through life and have everyone agree with everything you say. And even though I believe you are wrong in your beliefs (and now, even your actions) .....I still respect you. I will not try to demoralize you as your statement tried to do me.

But I will say this.....perhaps your focus should be more on bettering yourself....instead of trying to rid the world of "God"

~Brooke

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Quote:

Very well. Religious people may reproduce at will. Although, I plan on sneaking up on their children and grandchildren and teaching them science.

I teach an adult class on "The Development of Christian Thought" designed and targeted at Christians. Would you believe that in my class are a PhD geologist, an anthropologist, a biologist, three or four engineers, a sociologist, and a highschool general science teacher? These people seem to have no difficulty accepting religious belief within the framework of science or vice versa because they are open to other possibilities and not one believes we already have all the science we will ever have. I think that's pretty darn intelligent. Smile

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You're wasting your time JBB, ILZ is convinced of his own suprerior excellence. Nothing is likely to convince him otherwise, and it is my experience that a closed mind is the most tightly locked of human constructs.

Welcome to AckAck. I see your in Ahia . . . you have all of my sympathy.

Hilliard, Ohio, April Fools Day, in the year of somebody else's Lord, 2004

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husker wrote:

Jbb
WHere you been?

Hi husker......I've been mostly "lurking' and not taking time to post much. Life has been keeping me pretty busy lately. No matter how busy I get, I can't seem to stay away very long from A2K though Smile

Thank-you for asking.

Setanta....Thank-you for the welcome. And thanks for the sympathy Razz

I was born in Ohio. Not sure I will die here though. Sometimes I look at the vast world out there and it makes me want to taste the fruits of other places. And......"ditto" on your comments about ILZ :wink:

~Brooke

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JBB, I'm with Setanta. You are welcome to express your beliefs as you see fit. I'm a cynic when it comes to religion, and my posts reflect that. However, I would never deny an individual their right to a belief system, unless it directly harms others.

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Cavfancier....thank-you. Smile

This world is made of many different ideas and beliefs. Not one of us humans has all of the answers. Although some may think they do.

So, in life.....I try to listen to all sides. But ultimately in the end...I will make my own choices. And I hope in doing so.....I still remember to treat those that do not agree with me.....in the same manner I wish to be treated. Smile

There's nothing wrong with a good debate. Smile

As long as you do it with the mindset that some people are going to disagree with you. And that's ok. For that is "life."

~Brooke

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JBB,

If there were more of you around we'd all probably debate a whole lot less - or at least - the debates might be a little more civilized.

Your words are good from where I'm sitting.

Cheers.

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The Pope sets things straight for some of you Cool

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I just got through rereading Joseph Campbell's, "The Power of Myth." He said that it's difficult to take your own religion as anything but factual or literal, but you can study the myths of other cultures and understand the underlying metaphorical meaning. His point is that religious symbols and myths are poetry, and though different cultures have different myths, they are all saying the same thing metaphorically because they are all talking about the universal human condition.

So if you are on the verge of leaving your religion, instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, you can discover the metaphorical beauty of your religion's myths. Most people are unable to do that while still entrenched within their own religion. In fact, many religions say that a metaphorical interpretation of their myths and symbols is blasphemy.

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There is no need for everybody to get their panties in a bunch.

I can't help it if JBB has trained herself to interpret her own inner psychological states withen a religious context.

Nor can I help it if, by her own admission, her beliefs are based on something non-rational (fideism), and she refuses to alter those beliefs no matter what evidence is presented.

Given this, it is the hieght of assbackwardness and irony to turn around and claim that I am "close minded" and "ignorant," as Setanta and JBB have attempted.

Keeping an open mind does not entail subscribing to the possibility that a magical man created the world in seven days (six if you count the time he spent sipping pina coladas on some celestial beach, dreaming up AIDs and chuckling to himself).

Further, I would submit that the brand of blind faith that JBB subscribes to is not only intellectually bankrupt but is also dangerous (that is, after all, the point of this thread.)

It was the same type of blind faith that led to September 11th and other religious atrocities - a group of religious people had faith in their religion and acted upon that faith.

So, you'll have to forgive me for acting less-than-welcoming to JBB.

Sure, my posts are peppered with condescending skepticism, but that doesn't invalidate my points. I don't mean anything personal by it, and its unfortunate if people interpret it that way.

Frankly, I'm not sure what kind of reception JBB expected when she decided to come to a debate forum thread titled "Why I Rail Against Religion...." and procliamed loudly that she is religious, bases her belief on blind faith, and is not open to debate on the subject.

Toodles.

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ILZ......My beliefs are just that. They are MINE. Just as yours are your own. I do not mock you for your beliefs, nor do I expect you to mock me.

Where you and I are different, is that I allow others to believe what they want to believe with their own minds. Their own hearts. And I respect that.
I do not....nor would I ever belittle them for not "thinking" like I do. Smile

If you chose to put me down.....that is of no importance to me whatsoever. I will stand in front of you....and look you in the eye and tell you what I believe in. For God is important to me. And that is all I was doing when I posted of my love for Him. It was not to debate you. It was simply to say that I am PROUD to believe in God. I will never "cower" behind someone such as you and be afraid to go against what you believe in.....simply because I am afraid of being attacked for being a Christian.

I truely do not care what you think. And even more then that....I do not care how much you attack my character. Smile

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Foxfyre wrote:

Quote:
Very well. Religious people may reproduce at will. Although, I plan on sneaking up on their children and grandchildren and teaching them science.

I teach an adult class on "The Development of Christian Thought" designed and targeted at Christians. Would you believe that in my class are a PhD geologist, an anthropologist, a biologist, three or four engineers, a sociologist, and a highschool general science teacher? These people seem to have no difficulty accepting religious belief within the framework of science or vice versa because they are open to other possibilities and not one believes we already have all the science we will ever have. I think that's pretty darn intelligent.

Note that educated people all over the world choose to believe in the religious fantasy that is prevalent in their society - Hindu's, Muslims, Christians, Scientologits, etc. So, your chosen delusion is not the exclusive province of educated religious people. It doesn't validate Christianity any more than it does any other religious belief throughout the ages.

Also, the vast majority of scientists are non-believers. Going beyond the fact that science has proven to be a better descriptor of the universe than any other institution, the entire history of science is a story of the steady demolition of the pillars of faith. Let me know when this trend reverses.
I'll reference terracentrism, the age of the Earth, etc, etc, etc.

Religious nutbars variously respond to scientific advances by a) fundamentally altering thier beliefs to intrepret the Bible in a way that jives with new info (See: old earthers vs new earthers), b) claiming the scripture was meant to be taken metaphorically not literally (see: Noah's fairy tale), d) denying the new scientific discovery untill long after it has been proven (see: Galileo.)

The fact that some very intelligent people believe in god does not make the delusion charge any less valid. Human beings, regardless of intelligence, constantly distort their memories and remembrances for psychological reasons. How much more powerful then is the capacity to develop a belief where there is no contradictory sensory input, if that belief is psychologically useful. And it is.

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justa_babbling_brooke wrote:

ILZ......My beliefs are just that. They are MINE. Just as yours are your own. I do not mock you for your beliefs, nor do I expect you to mock me.

Where you and I are different, is that I allow others to believe what they want to believe with their own minds. Their own hearts. And I respect that.
I do not....nor would I ever belittle them for not "thinking" like I do.

If you chose to put me down.....that is of no importance to me whatsoever. I will stand in front of you....and look you in the eye and tell you what I believe in. For God is important to me. And that is all I was doing when I posted of my love for Him. It was not to debate you. It was simply to say that I am PROUD to believe in God. I will never "cower" behind someone such as you and be afraid to go against what you believe in.....simply because I am afraid of being attacked for being a Christian.

I truely do not care what you think. And even more then that....I do not care how much you attack my character.

Again, this leads me to wonder why you would enter a thread titled "Why I Rail Against Religion...." only to proudly proclaim that you believe in God for no tangible reason and are not open to debate.

Your beliefs may very well be yours. However, those beliefs profoundly affect my own life. I'm lazy, so I will just quote my first post:

Religious beliefs do affect my life. George Bush's faith, for example, demonstrably affects my life and the lives - not too mention deaths - of millions of others around the world. When Bush claims that "God instructed [him] to strike Iraq" it is utterly terrifying for rational people the world over.

An argument could be made that religions influence throughout the ages on science, politics, art, warfare, and literature, has been so unremmittingly retarding that it can be blamed as a pathology of the wrongs it leads to.

If you want to profess your own close-minded and irrational igorance, feel free to wallow in it. However, don't expect me to greet you with open arms, especially when that ignorance profoundly effects my life.

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Damn Beelzeb...I mean ILZ, I'm starting to feel the pull of your oratory. Good writing by the way

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I will say this again ILZ.......maybe this time you will "get it". I believe in God .....I love God....and I don't care if you don't like that. That is of no importance to me. Nor do I have to debate you on that. I am just as free as you are to make a post anywhere on this forum that I chose to. I am just as free to say what I want to say without making it into a debate.

My beliefs do not hurt you. And I am not president Bush. If you have an issue with him....take it up with him. Not me.

So.....deal with it, and get a grip. Smile

You will never rid the world of Christians. Just as Christians will never rid the world of athiests. We all live here together. There are many different colors of skin...many different beliefs. We are not all the same. You have a slight problem with dealing with people that do not share your thoughts. I suggest you work on that....and stop worrying about the Christians of this world. You would gain much more working on "your own" betterment. Smile

Please don't talk to me about close-mindedness....without first looking in your own closet ILZ. For I accept your right to your beliefs. That does not make you a bad person. That just means you think different then I do. You do not have all the answers about life. You are not always correct in everything you say....anymore than I am....or anyone else is.

*smiles* I am just "me" ILZ. I will make my own choices in life. And I will do it with my own mind. I will reason things out in my own fashion. Just as I hope you always do in life, also.

~Brooke

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justa_babbling_brooke wrote:

You will never rid the world of Christians. Just as Christians will never rid the world of athiests.

But one can dream... one can dream.

"I had a dream. Where one day people of all colors believe in dwarfy and send me a tithe...."

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justa_babbling_brooke wrote:

I will say this again ILZ.......maybe this time you will "get it". I believe in God .....I love God....and I don't care if you don't like that. That is of no importance to me. Nor do I have to debate you on that. I am just as free as you are to make a post anywhere on this forum that I chose to. I am just as free to say what I want to say without making it into a debate.

Brooke - you are on a forum which is for information exchange, and DISCUSSION. If you post a belief here, it is going to be debated. You do not, indeed, HAVE to debate - but you are going to be miserable if you expect to be able to post on a general forum thread here and not have people challenge your beliefs, just as everyone else's are challenged.

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ILZ - did Bush really say that god instructed him to invade Iraq?

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I am 26 inches tall, shapley and well proportioned, my head perhaps a trifle too large. My hair is not black like the others', but reddish, very stiff and thick, drawn back from the temples, and the broad but not especially lofty brow. My face is beardless, but otherwise just like that of other men. My eyebrows meet. My bodily strength is considerable, particulary if I am annoyed. When the wrestling match was arranged between Jehoshaphat and myself I forced him onto his back after twenty minutes and strangled him. Since then I have been the only dwarf at this court. I do not dream.

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Why I, and Others, Constantly Rail Against Religion

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