Why I, and Others, Constantly Rail Against Religion

justa_babbling_brooke wrote:

My misunderstanding Craven. It looked as though you were implying that Christians were more at fault for Bush being president then NON Christians.

No problem. But I don't really see it as "fault" anyway. Such is democracy.

Incidentally, Bush's upcoming campaign will be more focused on religion that the previous one. Winning more of the Christian vote is a goal of his advisors that he's been positioning himself for.

I'm willing to bet you a cookie and a glass of milk that in the upcoming election (which I think Bush will win) Christians will show stronger support for him than in the last election.

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[quote="Craven de Kere (which I think Bush will win)
[/quote]

What's going to happen when and if Bush wins?

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husker wrote:

What's going to happen when and if Bush wins?

Wailing and knashing of teeth on A2K.

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Don't think the world is gonna be real overjoyed either.

The bornagain thing - do bornagains distinguish themselves from other christians?

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what does born-again have to do with it? plenty of folks call themselfs Christians that are not born-again.

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husker, according to the Bible all Christians are "born again".

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husker wrote:

what does born-again have to do with it? plenty of folks call themselfs Christians that are not born-again.

I am much too lazy right now to go back and read that article again, husker. But if I recall "born again" was just the term they used to signify a Christian voter in their polls. But, you are right....many call themselves Christians who are not born again.

Craven......you may be right in saying that the Christian population will be even more supportive of Bush in this election. All the more reason for people to get out and vote that do not want Bush in office. But I do know of alot of Christian voters in my neck of the woods that are pretty fed up with Bush. So, I guess we'll know soon enough.

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Now there was a Pharisee named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. He came to Jesus by night and said to him, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do apart from the presence of God."
Jesus answered him, "Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born again."
Nicodemus said to him, "How can anyone be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time into the mother's womb and be born?" Jesus answered, "Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit."

-John 3:1-5

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In my experience some Christians would like to distance themselves from the modern evangelical born-again movement.

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dyslexia wrote:

Now there was a Pharisee named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. He came to Jesus by night and said to him, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do apart from the presence of God."
Jesus answered him, "Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born again."
Nicodemus said to him, "How can anyone be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time into the mother's womb and be born?" Jesus answered, "Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit."

-John 3:1-5

I know this - however many a Christian (self proclaimed) folk just think this is a metaphor and semantics. I'm clearly a born-again type but please believe me when I say there's a bunch of one toe in the water folks out there.

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I used to be the skinny-dipping and splashing around type.

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I am reverting. I just bought some nun shoes today, uh, many years after the summer I was going to get them for real. (Dansko's oxfords, real clunkers).

On what to do if/when Bush gets in again. I have considered leaving and might work that out if I had the right bank account. On the other hand, staying and trying to effect change might be the better act.

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Craven de Kere wrote:

I used to be the skinny-dipping and splashing around type.

Yeah - dunking folk in the font - and I bet you asked your mummy if you and the gang could go play in the haunted house - "You know mum, the cool place where the holy ghost hangs out...."

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husker wrote:

I know this - however many a Christian (self proclaimed) folk just think this is a metaphor and semantics. I'm clearly a born-again type but please believe me when I say there's a bunch of one toe in the water folks out there.

I'm sorry you ol' cornhusker, you, but i have to diverge from your view here, knowing full well you offer no insult to anyone. Many of those of whom you speak as having "one toe in the water" many believe and look forward to the resurrection and the light as do you, and yet not be demonstrative, or feel the need to proclaim their faith on numerous occasions--this makes them no less fervent and genuine in their faith than thou, dear fellow sinner. Pride goeth before a fall, i believe we are told, and many of the quieter among the christians of this nation are as christain as those who would proclaim. For some, the thought of the rapture may not involve loud hosannahs and making a joyful noise. I feel certain you can see that there are many whose joy will be inward, and their love of their fellow women and men no less than the demonstrative christian.

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Uh, oh, set, that can also come down to style. Gospel singing in relation to pious kneeling in quietude. I was raised in the second and really like the first, from my longtimenow secular point of view.
The key is whether people push views as a mandate on others, in a democracy or in a world.

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Uh...Craven I just went back over those polling results and found a slight typo. It should read:

Individuals were asked how often they had sex.

More than once a week - Gore 37% Bush 63%

Once a week - Gore 40% Bush 57%

Once a month - Gore 52% Bush 47%

Seldom - Gore 54% Bush 43%

Never - Gore 61% Bush 33%

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panzade,

In light of your new information, I think the numbers somehow got reversed...

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Craven, Just a little note on Christianity prompted by your statement--

"A belief that I and other Athiests will burn in Hell forever"

According to the Knights of Columbus catechism (link didn't work last time I tried it?) Athiests simply perish. Both Heaven and Hell are apparently reserved for persons that believe in them.

And Jesus Christ is reputed to have said-"Whomsoever who believith in Me shall not perish. This also, IMO, implies that we Athiests will perish, period.

I realize that Catholic Dogma does not necessarily square with all Rolling Eyes

the Protestant versions, but the KofC has, IMO, the most well thought out arguements and protestations of faith on the web.

So now I hope you can rest more easily since I have helped clear up that little misconception of Christianity that you "believed". Smile

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Why I, and Others, Constantly Rail Against Religion

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