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Kerry Sticks to Claim of World Support; reporter erred

 
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 08:03 am
It seems some were concerned more about getting France and Germany's share of the business. Out with the Andre and Fritz in with Hal as in Haliburton.

J
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 08:25 am
The Waffle King stays on form:
Quote:
Kerry now rejects foreign endorsements


By Donald Lambro and Stephen Dinan
THE WASHINGTON TIMES



Democratic presidential nominee Sen. John Kerry yesterday renounced all endorsements of foreign leaders, after his campaign faced questions this week over his claim that world leaders told him face to face they want him to defeat President Bush.
"This election will be decided by the American people, and the American people alone," said Mr. Kerry's foreign policy adviser, Rand Beers. "It is simply not appropriate for any foreign leader to endorse a candidate in America's presidential election.
"John Kerry does not seek, and will not accept, any such endorsements."
Mr. Kerry's campaign, which has been knocked off message as Republicans, including Mr. Bush, have demanded that Mr. Kerry either prove his statement or quit talking about it, issued Mr. Beers' comments when the former prime minister of Malaysia endorsed the Massachusetts senator in an Associated Press interview.
"John Kerry rejects any association with former Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad, an avowed anti-Semite whose views are totally deplorable," Mr. Beers said. On Wednesday, Spain's prime minister-elect urged Americans to vote for Mr. Kerry during an interview on Spanish radio.
Mr. Beers' comments echoed what Vice President Dick Cheney said Wednesday, "American voters are the ones charged with determining the outcome of this election, not unnamed foreign leaders," and that the president's job is to protect America's interests.
The entire issue, which stems from Mr. Kerry's assertion last week at a Florida fund-raiser that leaders told him privately that they hope he defeats Mr. Bush, has derailed what had been a good month for the senator. He repeatedly has refused to back up his assertion, even in the face of evidence he could not have had the meetings.
An investigation by The Washington Times of Mr. Kerry's public events and schedules found no opportunity for a meeting with any foreign head of state during the past year.
After weeks of pummeling Mr. Bush on his handling of the Iraq war and the economy, and as he rose in the polls, the Massachusetts senator has turned suddenly defensive in response to a fierce White House counterattack that challenged him to name the anonymous foreign leaders or drop the accusation altogether.
"I'm not making anything up at all," Mr. Kerry said on Monday. But his increasingly defensive posture has only served to divert attention from his larger campaign message and that, Democrats say, has interrupted his momentum and brought questions about his credibility from top administration officials and late-night TV comedians.
"The effect of this is that it has thrown his campaign off message," said a senior Democratic Party campaign adviser. "This is not the debate he wanted to have."
This is the same complaint that Mr. Kerry's campaign has been getting in recent days from other party advisers, foreign policy strategists and media consultants who say he needlessly opened himself up to a brutal series of Republican counterpunches.
"Kerry sounds defensive. He has to understand when not to respond to the attack. He needs to go back and put Bush on the defensive. He has to remember to stay on message," said Michigan Democratic campaign pollster Ed Sarpolus.
"Obviously, any day that we're not talking about the sluggish economy is a day that John Kerry is not talking about what he wants to talk about," Democratic consultant George Shelton said.
Even Democratic foreign policy advisers who believe Mr. Kerry's story concede that he virtually invited the Republican attacks by making a claim of private conversations that he could not or would not confirm.
"I think he's right, but he's also in the unfortunate position of not being able to prove it and Bush found that out very quickly and then deployed [Secretary of State Colin L.] Powell, the most widely respected secretary of state, to make the critique," said Michael O'Hanlon, a foreign policy scholar at the Brookings Institution.
Sent out Sunday to put down Mr. Kerry's remarks, Mr. Powell suggested that there were plenty of reasons to doubt the senator's veracity.
"If he feels it is that important an assertion to make, he ought to list some names. If he can't list names, then perhaps he should find something else to talk about. I don't know what foreign leader Senator Kerry is talking about. It's an easy charge, an easy assertion," the secretary said.
A survey by The Times of embassies of key nations that opposed the U.S.-led effort to oust Saddam Hussein in Iraq found that no leaders of those nations ?- including Germany, France, Russia, Mexico and Canada ?- have met with Mr. Kerry since the beginning of 2003.
"Kerry was caught in a position where he could not substantiate it and Bush engaged the fight," Mr. O'Hanlon said. "I don't know if Bush has the momentum now, but I would certainly acknowledge that he has gotten in a couple of blows."
But foreign policy advisers such as Mr. O'Hanlon say that Mr. Kerry's claim that he has the support of many foreign leaders also raises "the more interesting argument about whether American foreign policy should be viewed as a popularity contest."
"And the answer is, not always. We have to do what is in our interests to protect ourselves, but at some point lack of foreign support can hurt you," he said.
But now Mr. Kerry's claim has become the brunt of jokes on the late-night TV shows, a development that could open him up to further ridicule.
David Letterman said Tuesday on his "Late Show" that when Mr. Kerry "said a lot of world leaders want him to be president," the administration said, "Yeah, well, like who? And then John Kerry said, 'Well, I really can't say.' So now they are really hammering Kerry. The only name he could come up with? Queen Latifah."
• Bill Sammon contributed to this report.


Source
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 08:28 am
Like an anonymous endorsement was an endorsement, anyway. It's about like me saying I've got great work references, but I'm not going to tell you who they are from.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 08:34 am
Its a no-brainer. the foreign govts have adopted a"anybody but Bush" attitude. You know it and I know it.

The "quoted"statement by the GOP was an error by the pool reporter . any more dwell upon the self evident message will only further hurt Bush. so, i GAF
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 08:43 am
By the way. kerry is an elected official who requires a different level of approvals for any contacts with foreign dignitaries. Many legislators make foreign junkets on their own with often , no Executive approvals. so fishins statement that its a possible felony is not correct. Senators go to parties at embassies weekly. Do you think they really report back? Ive got a bridge for sale
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 08:44 am
Yeah, I know it, but the point is Kerry has a big mouth like Dean but is twice as arrogant and condescending.

Fine, let him suffer the same fate.

As for foriegn leaders, they don't elect our presidents so I don't give a rip who they want.
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 12:25 pm
ILZ - Aside from your pretense that everyone in the world is unhappy with the US (some are, some aren't) and that we should base foreign policy on the whims of others, you've done a pretty good job of listing the negatives/reasons against the war. Now, if you add the positives/reasons for into the equation you can start to make a rational determination as to whether the war was a worthwhile endeavor or was not.

As someone who supported the war, I don't just look at all the rosy reasons for it, I look at the pros AND cons, and have concluded that it was and will be justified. That written, I'm fairly confident that if I only allowed myself to consider the cons, I would be very much against the war and the occupation.

Of course, if my doctor wants to amputate my leg and the only information he gives me is that it will be expensive, painful, and of course I lose the leg... well, even being a "typical conservative" (which I am not, by the way) I'm going to say "no thank-you" to the amputation. But, if the doctor tells me that I have a 10% chance of survival if I keep the leg and a 90% chance if I lose it, suddenly the equation becomes more complex.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 01:23 pm
Brand x-yeh but if your president had international support, youd trumpet that out.
scrat-if you still support the war, then youve not been paying attention to the trail of deceit, or else you GO ALONG WITH IT, In either case, my vote cancels your vote.

I like when Kerry gets a dose of reality to recognize that Bush failed us badly in his side of the bargain and he willfully misled us , you call it flip-flopping, I call it thhe first step to despotism pal. By your logic, lemmings are geniuses.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 01:27 pm
I don't play trumpet, I play guitar...
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 01:50 pm
farmerman wrote:
scrat-if you still support the war, then youve not been paying attention to the trail of deceit...

On the contrary, I make a habit of closely following the words and actions of the left. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 01:53 pm
roger wrote:
Like an anonymous endorsement was an endorsement, anyway. It's about like me saying I've got great work references, but I'm not going to tell you who they are from.

Exactly, Kerry wants his cake, and wants to eat it too, but he doesn't want to have to clean up the crumbs, or tell us what's in the cake.

(Okay, so that was a lousy metaphor, but it did make me hungry.) :wink:
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 04:41 pm
Bush: Foreign Leaders Want Me to Fix Kerry's Wagon

(2004-03-16) -- In the wake of claims by Democrat presidential candidate John Forbes Kerry that foreign leaders hope he wins the White House, President George Bush today said "unnamed foreign leaders told me they want me to clean Kerry's clock, you know, to fix his wagon."

"They can't go out and say this publicly," Mr. Bush said, "but boy they look at you and say, 'You've got to pummel this wishy-washy appeaser. You've got to spank him with the buckle end of the belt'. Of course, I can't tell you who said that, but them foreigners want me to put a hurt on him."

Mr. Bush, like Mr. Kerry, spends hours every day chatting with foreign leaders to find out what kind of American foreign policy will be most popular with them. And while Mr. Kerry speaks fluent French thanks to childhood summers spent at a family estate in Brittany, Mr. Bush speaks Spanish and Pig Latin, which he calls "the new Esperanto...the global language of diplomacy."

"You wouldn't believe some of the things my foreign buddies have told me about Enator-say Erry-kay," said Mr. Bush. "It's all on the Q.T., of course."
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 07:59 pm
brandx-

are you actually proud of that from a sitting president of the most powerful nation in the world?

All I know is if people actually fall for that kind of a thing and he actually wins this time, then we deserve what we get. May God help us all.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 08:21 pm
revel wrote:
brandx-

are you actually proud of that from a sitting president of the most powerful nation in the world?

All I know is if people actually fall for that kind of a thing and he actually wins this time, then we deserve what we get. May God help us all.


That's just satire, my dear. I posted it for a bit of fun... :wink:
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 08:38 pm
That's just satire, my dear. I posted it for a bit of fun...




Oh, well, I feel like I should feel. Embarrassed I'll get over it.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Mar, 2004 08:43 pm
Sometimes it's hard to tell cuz politics is so goofy anyway.
0 Replies
 
IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Mar, 2004 11:20 pm
Scrat wrote:
ILZ - Aside from your pretense that everyone in the world is unhappy with the US (some are, some aren't) and that we should base foreign policy on the whims of others, you've done a pretty good job of listing the negatives/reasons against the war. Now, if you add the positives/reasons for into the equation you can start to make a rational determination as to whether the war was a worthwhile endeavor or was not.


You downplay the alienation Bush has caused because it is neccessary to make your stance seem plausible.

In fact, everyone in the world is mad at us, as there are no nations outside Britain where a majority supported the war. In fact, we have seen the largest protests in the history of the world over this matter.

If you want to judge by political opinion, then the picture is a little different, but still overwhelmingly against us: few of our traditional allies joined our war; the rest of the thirty or so pro-war nations were mostly obscure, had obvious ulterior motives (ie- Kuwait), or were outrightly bribed by America (ie-Uzbekistan and its 2 billion dollar gift.)

When the only superpower in the world spends two years building the case for war, and yet still - despite its tremendous power, influence, and wealth - it is barely able to scrap together thirty nations, few of which are even traditional allies, that is not a good sign.

The fact is, only a portion of one nation on Earth - America - supports the war. If you narrow down the criteria to only informed Americans, then the numbers are even smaller.

For example, a year ago, when Americans were gung ho for the war, 70% of them thought Saddam Hussien was personally connected to September 11th, and an even greater percentage thought he possessed WMD's. They supported the war based on thier ridiculous and singularly retarded perception of the world. Their opinions on the war in Iraq are as meaningfull as my dogs opinions on cosmic string theory.

Now, a year after the war began, most Americans have awoke from thier fantasy. There are no WMD's. There are no terrorist connections. Iraq did not pose an imminant threat. In accordance with this "new" information, American support for the war has dropped.

You, however, are in your own special catagory: you are aware of these facts, yet somehow, you manage to go on supporting this absurd war.

Quote:
As someone who supported the war, I don't just look at all the rosy reasons for it, I look at the pros AND cons, and have concluded that it was and will be justified. That written, I'm fairly confident that if I only allowed myself to consider the cons, I would be very much against the war and the occupation.


I think your patriotism (read: blind faith) leads you to grossly over-emphasize the pros and downplay the cons.

Quote:
Of course, if my doctor wants to amputate my leg and the only information he gives me is that it will be expensive, painful, and of course I lose the leg... well, even being a "typical conservative" (which I am not, by the way) I'm going to say "no thank-you" to the amputation. But, if the doctor tells me that I have a 10% chance of survival if I keep the leg and a 90% chance if I lose it, suddenly the equation becomes more complex.


Thats silly.

I can make silly analogies too (although mine is probably more accurate). Watch:

Your doctor tells you that there is an infection on your leg and they will have to amputate. Even though all the other doctors in the hospital disagree, you allow the operation to go through. You awake to find that your doctor has accidentally hacked off a piece of your ear and a couple arms. Oops! "Collateral damage", he calls it. Afterwards, you continue to pay huge sums of money on recovery, forcing you into serious debt. Then, a year or so after the operation, your doctor admits that, well, there was no infection to begin with - his reasons for ordering the operation were faulty. Yet, you still support the amputation - welcome to conservatism!
0 Replies
 
IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Mar, 2004 11:36 pm
EDIT: I see Scrat has deleted the post I was responding to below. In any case, I will let my response stand:




It doesn't reflect well on you when you don't respond to the substantive parts of my post.

Scrat wrote:

No, I downplay it because it is of virtually no consequence to me.


Yes, because you are an irrational, fundamentally biased person.

To the rest of us, these things are important: the fact that Bush has alienated us from the rest of the world is of great importance; as is the fact that 10,000 innocent civilians died; 600 American soldiers died; the "revelation" that there are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq; the "revelation" that there are no terrorist connections; the fact that this ill advised foray has plunged our nation into unprecedented debt; and the argument that the entire war may have, in fact, created more terrorism than it prevented. To rational and objective people these things are very important.

Quote:
And your insistence on pretending knowledge of what everyone in the world thinks is assinine.


I don't pretend knowledge; I cite facts. The facts of world opinion are outlined in my last post. If these facts are confusing and/or inconvenient to you, it doesn't negate thier truthfullness.

Quote:
You clearly have that "everyone thinks like I think" mentality. You find that a lot in prisons, I understand.


No, not everyone thinks like I do. Most rational people do, though.

Toodles.
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 12:25 am
ILZ - I deleted that post because I realized there was no point in trying to discuss things with someone who is convinced he already knows what everyone else either does or should think.

Toodles.
0 Replies
 
IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2004 12:42 am
Scrat wrote:
ILZ - I deleted that post because I realized there was no point in trying to discuss things with someone who is convinced he already knows what everyone else either does or should think.


I supported my comment about what other people think with facts. It was not my opinion, but rather an incontrovertable fact.

My personal opinion was also supported with facts. Naturally, I believe that my opinion is the correct one and would hope more people adopt it.
0 Replies
 
 

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