What sort of "God" would you like ?

All that was just logical deduction. Divine Love is by definition from God. In what sense could love exist if not free will is involved? Then it would be compulsory, and not love at all. How could one love something that is not conscious? I don't see how one could anyway. It also should be obvious that it's not possible for an "impersonal force" to love.

You're right, though. I should try to be more careful in the future to emphasise that what I say reflect my own beliefs, experiences and reasoning.

Logical deduction based on what?

If you assume that one thing exists, then you may be able to deduce that the other exists if they are related, but again, you must make assumptions.

What are your base assumptions, and where do they come from?

You seem to have constructed a very creative and detailed world view for yourself. But it seems to be self contained and circular. In your mind, this view seems to supersede external realities. Is this by choice?

My view is based on God's love, which to me is more real than anything else. Like some kind of higher reality. Almost every time I think about it, I'm touched to tears. God can literally make one feel his presence, love, wisdom and goodness. When I experience this it is as if I'm inside a divine sphere, where only love, good and truth exists, and all evil is like washed away. It's a very blessed sensation with really strong emotion.

To me that which I perceive with my bodily senses is not as real as what I described above. What I see with my eyes is vague and insubstantial in comparison. Even other people seem largely lifeless to me when they are caught up in all there spiritually insignificant trifles. As if they have lost connection with who they truly are. In my mind, everything of life is spirit. Spirit does of course manifest itself in external realities, though, but external reality in itself is, as I see it, dead. That's why I have a hard time understanding how some people can "worship" nature itself, as it to me is only a manifestation of the divine. Where I see beauty in nature, I see the beauty of God, who is the very essense of Life.

Yes, I suspected as much. I understand your perspective and sincerely congratulate you on acquiring a world view which satisfies you so deeply.

My view of things is completely different, but satisfies me just as deeply (the comfort and joy you describe is quite familiar to me).



I can't speak for everyone, but I don't worship nature. I don't worship anything. But I love nature for what it is and what it represents, and I appreciate my place in it.

Thanks for describing your perspective on things with such clarity and openness.

Best Regards,

truth
I also greatly appreciate that Derevon is not sending (wishing) me to Hell for not sharing his belief. I know many Christians, mostly fundamentalists, who probably feel that one of the perks of Heaven is the knowledge of unbelievers' suffering. One sees some of that in the present craze over the notion of The Rapture. Part of its value is the knowledge of those who are "left behind." I see none of this in Derevon.

At some point if the history of Christianity, it became supernatural and aliented from nature. Rather than rising from nature, it imposed itself on nature.

The following are direct quotes from Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth."

"The Grail represents the fulfillment of the highest spiritual potentialities of the human consciousness."

"The Grail King, for example, was a lovely young man, but he had not earned the position of Grail King. He rode forth from his castle with the war cry, "Amor!". . . And as he's riding forth, a Muslim, a pagan knight, comes out of the woods. They both level their lances at each other, and they drive at each other. The lance of the Grail King kills the pagan, but the pagan's lance castrates the Grail King."

"What that means is that the Christian separation of matter and spirit, ... of natural grace and supernatural grace, has really castrated nature. . . . The true spirituality, which would have come from the union of matter and spirit, has been killed. And then what then did the pagan represent? He was a person from the suburbs of Eden. He was regarded as a nature man, and on the head of his lance was written the word 'Grail.' That is to say, nature intends the Grail. Spiritual life is the bouquet, the perfume, the flowering and fulfillment of a human life, not a supernatural virtue imposed upon it."

"And so the impulses of nature are what give authenticity to life, not the rules coming from a supernatural authority—that's the sense of the Grail."