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The Gun Fight in Washington. Your opinons?

 
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2013 11:00 am
@parados,

Parasite is the poster child for the dumbmasses Laughing

The image I posted contains a quote, but I did not quote anything.

I find it interesting how you always go off topic because you are unable
to discuss the topic at hand. The topic: gun registration and confiscation.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2013 11:05 am


IMMIGRANT BEHIND VIRAL TESTIMONY EXPLAINS WHY HE’S PRO-GUN

Henson Ong, the Connecticut resident and legal immigrant whose passionate defense of the Second Amendment drew applause at a legislative hearing this week, said his pro-gun ownership views were cemented after he and his family were the victims of violent crime in their native land.

Ong, of Waterbury, Conn., said he and his family immigrated to the U.S. from the Philippines 13 years ago. He declined to provide many personal details, including his age, but told TheBlaze in a telephone interview it was that crime that prompted their move to the U.S.

“As a personal victim of violent crime, I can say that appeasement to criminals and disarming the innocent is not the solution,” Ong told TheBlaze. “If a violent criminal were to attack you and your family, the only answer, the only logical answer, is to defend oneself and eliminate the threat. That doesn’t necessarily mean killing, but it means stop the threat as quickly as possible.”

He added, “I do not want those rights, and the freedoms that come with the rights, eroded in my adopted country.”

Ong said he felt compelled to testify at the hearing amid nationwide calls for more gun control following the Newtown, Conn. elementary school massacre last month.

“What is the point of gun control? The common factor of all violence in society is the violent individual,” Ong said. “If the violent individual was not there you could have an arsenal and the arsenal would have harmed nobody.”
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2013 11:07 am
@parados,
Picky picky picky.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2013 12:32 pm
@RABEL222,
Spurt is the one that fulfilled Godwin's law.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2013 12:53 pm
@parados,
Mr. Green
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Mar, 2013 01:41 pm
@cicerone imposter,
When a persons name is under a "quote" isent that normally considered a quote by that person. Oh, its waterman, forget I said anything.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 9 Mar, 2013 07:38 am


Some US communities seek to make gun ownership mandatory
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 9 Mar, 2013 08:25 am


Senate Judiciary Cmte. Debates 'Assault Weapons Ban'

Obama still backs new gun ban; top senator less certain
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 9 Mar, 2013 08:48 am
http://freedomthirst.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Kennesaw_Georgia_Guns.jpg
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Mar, 2013 08:59 am
Some people are simply not psychologically or temperamentally suited to owning guns. That is where I would like to see some restrictions.

Some of the posts in this thread reinforce my feelings in that regard.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 9 Mar, 2013 09:06 am


It has been concluded that Frank A. is simply not psychologically
or temperamentally suited to owning firearms. Most of his posts
on this subject serve to reinforce this conclusion.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Mar, 2013 09:10 am
@H2O MAN,
Quote:

It has been concluded that Frank A. is simply not psychologically
or temperamentally suited to owning firearms. Most of his posts
on this subject serve to reinforce this conclusion.


Perhaps you are correct here, H2O. Perhaps I am not suited for a variety of reason to own firearms.

But I personally think you and some of the others here advocating for gun-right do not show enough maturity and stability to own them either.

Not sure how safeguards to keep firearms out of the hands of people lacking maturity and stability could be established and regulated, but I hope someone comes up with some ideas in that regard soon.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 9 Mar, 2013 09:17 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Not sure how safeguards to keep firearms out of the hands of people lacking maturity and stability could be established and regulated


Somehow I would bet that if such a program ever was try the degree of a person maturity and stability would be judge by the degree of support that person express for whoever is in power in Washington at any given time.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Mar, 2013 02:37 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You have to have the right "I want to kill something" mindset before you can own a gun.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Mar, 2013 02:40 pm
@RABEL222,

Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5273957)
You have to have the right "I want to kill something" mindset before you can own a gun.


Yup...and I do not have that.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Mar, 2013 02:42 pm
@BillRM,
How about denying guns to people who say "if that black, white, conservative, liberal, communist, socialist, summabitch comes to my block I'll blow his fucken head off.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Mar, 2013 02:46 pm
@RABEL222,
You mean they don't do that already~!
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 9 Mar, 2013 02:52 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
ow about denying guns to people who say "if that black, white, conservative, liberal, communist, socialist, summabitch comes to my block I'll blow his fucken head off.


You do know that making death/terrorist threats against anyone is a crime under almost all states laws that would bar anyone from owning a firearm as a convicted felon?

Quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_threat

A death threat is a threat, often made anonymously, by one person or a group of people to kill another person or groups of people. These threats are usually designed to intimidate victims in order to manipulate their behavior, thus a death threat is a form of coercion. For example, a death threat could be used to dissuade a public figure from pursuing a criminal investigation or an advocacy campaign.
In many jurisdictions, death threats are a criminal offense. Death threats are often covered by coercion statutes. For instance, the coercion statute in Alaska says:
A person commits the crime of coercion if the person compels another to engage in conduct from which there is a legal right to abstain or abstain from conduct in which there is a legal right to engage, by means of instilling in the person who is compelled a fear that, if the demand is not complied with, the person who makes the demand or another may inflict physical injury on anyone....[1]
Contents [hide]
1 Methods
2 Death threats against a head of state
3 Osman warning, letter or notice
4 See also
5 References
6 External links
[edit]Methods

A death threat can be communicated via a wide range of media, among these letters, newspaper publications, telephone calls, internet blogs,[2] and e-mail. If the threat is made against a political figure, it can also be considered treason. If a threat is against a non-living location that frequently contains living individuals (e.g. a building) it could be a terrorist threat. Sometimes death threats are part of a wider campaign of abuse targeting a person or a group of people (see terrorism, mass murder).
Here is an example of an actual death threat, from the book Wordcrime by John Olsson. This is a genuine example from a criminal case, provided by the Forensic Linguistics Institute, which analyzes all kinds of text, including traditional letters, ransom demands, hate mail, various texts via mobile phone; SMS device, etc., for authorship:
Boris: I am one of the 4 employees still in the office. I have withheld my identity because I have realised that nothing is a secret any more, the author of the anonymous doc is now a public information. I write as a matter of genuine concern. We in the office are convinced that there is a real threat at your life, some mysterious people are looking for you (different people at different times). They are not genuine people. The cops are also looking for you, they say they want to return you to court, they look like there is more than meets the eye or more that we know of. regards
[edit]Death threats against a head of state

In some monarchies and republics, both democratic and authoritarian, threatening to kill the head of state and/or head of government (such as the sovereign, president, or prime minister) is considered a crime for which punishments vary. US law provides for up to 5 years in prison for threatening the President of the United States. In the United Kingdom, under the Treason Felony Act 1848, it is illegal to attempt to kill or deprive the monarch of his/her throne; this offense was originally punished with penal transportation and then was changed to the death penalty and currently the penalty is life imprisonment.
[edit]Osman warning, letter or notice

Named after a high-profile case, Osman v United Kingdom, these are warnings of death threat or high risk of murder that are issued by British police or legal authorities to the expected victim.[3] They are used when there is intelligence of the threat, but there is not enough evidence to justify the police arresting the expected murderer.[4]

BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 9 Mar, 2013 03:02 pm
@BillRM,
Here is some more information on the legal statue of threats.


Quote:


http://www.criminalattorney.com/news/terrorist-threats/

Terrorist Threats: When Is a Threat Criminal?

August 7th, 2005
By Vince Imhoff, Esq., and Dan Rhoads

Despite its name, the crime of terrorist threats does not necessarily implicate al Qaeda or other terrorist organizations for their inflammatory speech or their attempts at political blackmail. Instead, the offense has more to do with situations involving domestic violence, hate crimes, bomb threats, and school violence. The question presented as to when is a threat actually a violation of the criminal law presents a tension between an individuals free-speech rights and the government’s duty to protect its citizens.

This article will attempt to answer the question so as to give individuals guidance in their dealings with other people. It will not resolve the tension because in matters of law there always exists the need to balance individual rights against the rights of the government to govern to protect the citizenry at large.

Generally, a person makes a terrorist threat by threatening a violent crime with the purpose of terrorizing another or of causing public panic or inconvenience. Model Penal Code 211.3.

In California, under Penal Code Section 422, a criminal threat has five elements:

1. the accused willfully threatened to commit the crime that will result in death or great bodily injury; and
2. the accused made the threat with the specific intent that it be taken as a threat; and
3. the threat is so unequivocal, unconditional, immediate, and specific as to convey a gravity of purpose and the immediate prospect of execution; and
4. the threat actually caused sustained fear in the victim; and 5. the sustained fear was reasonable.
Willful Threat To Commit a Crime that Will Result in Death or Great Bodily Injury

Thus, it is clear that not just any threat qualifies. It must be a true threat. A threat that is real and genuine. Only a person who “willfully threatens to commit a crime which will result in death or great bodily injury to another person” may be charged with making criminal threats. Cal. Penal Code 422. Such a threat may be “made verbally, in writing, or by means of an electronic communications device” Id.

Therefore, calling in a bomb threat and threatening to shoot a person are just two examples of the kind of threat that the law makes illegal. Threatening to slash someone’s tires probably would not, on its own, be sufficient to be considered a criminal threat.

Specific Intent

The person making the threat must have the specific intent that his statement “is to be taken as a threat, even if there is no intent of actually carrying it out Cal. Penal Code 422. Consequently, if someone points an imitation firearm at another and threatens to shoot, it is no defense that the threatener knew that his gun was harmless. If his purpose is to make the other person feel threatened, the specific intent element is satisfied.

Therefore, a high-school student’s drawing of a police officer being shot was ruled not to be a criminal threat. The officer had previously cited the student for possessing marijuana. Over a month later, the student drew a young man shooting an officer who was wearing that officers badge number. He turned in the drawing for credit in his art class. Although the student first said that he did not expect the officer ever to see the drawing, he admitted that it would be reasonable to expect that she would. The court ruled that this evidence was not “sufficient to establish that, at the time he acted, the minor harbored the specific intent that the painting would be displayed to [the officer].” In re Ryan D., 100 Cal. App. 4th 854, 864 (3rd Dist. 2002).

Unequivocal, Unconditional, Immediate, and Specific

The threat, both on its face and under the circumstances, must be “so unequivocal, unconditional, immediate, and specific as to convey to the person threatened a gravity of purpose and an immediate prospect of execution of the threat.” Cal. Penal Code 422. This third element is the one that is most often disputed in prosecutions under the criminal threats provision of Californias Penal Code. Thus, court opinions have illuminated its meaning.

“Unequivocal”: A minor’s commitment to juvenile detention was reversed when the court found that his dark poetry did not constitute a criminal threat. The minor showed to some female classmates a poem in which he had written, “I can be the next kid to bring guns to kill students at school. So parents watch your children cuz I’m BACK!!” One of the students felt threatened and told a teacher. The school then took action. The California Supreme Court held that the poem was not criminal. On its face, the threat was not unequivocal because the persona says, “I can,” as opposed to, “I will kill students.” Under the circumstances, the poem was not unequivocally threatening.

Given that there was no animosity between the students nor any “immediate prospect of execution of a threat to kill,” the poem was not “sufficiently unequivocal to convey . . . an immediate prospect that minor would bring guns to school and shoot students.” In re George T., 93 P.3d 1007, 1009, 1018 (2004).

“Unconditional”: Despite what the statute says, the courts have held that a conditional threat can be criminal. In People v. Bolin, the prosecution argued that a letter the defendant sent his daughter’s baby’s father was a criminal threat. Among other things, the letter said, “If you ever touch my daughter again, I’ll have you permanently removed from the face of this Earth.” Bolin, 956 P.2d 374, 402 (Ca. 1998). Rejecting the defendant’s argument that his conditional threat was not criminal, the court stressed that the threat must only be so unconditional as to convey a gravity of purpose and an immediate possibility of carrying out the threat.

Reasonable, Sustained Fear

A criminal threat must cause the victim a “sustained fear for his or her own safety or for his or her immediate family’s safety.” Cal. Penal Code 422. ‘Sustained’ means “a period of time that extends beyond what is momentary, fleeting, or transitory.” People v. Allen, 33 Cal. App. 4th 1149, 1156 (2nd Dist. 1995). That fear must be reasonablein other words, it must be a fear that any reasonable person in the victim’s situation would feel. The threat “does not have to be the sole cause of the victim’s fear” and actions taken after a threat may contribute to the victim’s fear. People v. Solis, 90 Cal. App. 4th 905, 1015 (2nd Dist. 2001).

In situations where the final two elements of the crime of criminal threats are not present, the speaker may be charged with an attempt to make a criminal threat. People v. Benitez, 105 Cal. Rptr. 2d 242, 251 (3rd Dist. 2001). Consequently, if the intended victim is deaf, or overconfident in his ability to defend himself, or suicidal, a criminal threat might not provoke sustained fear. However, if the threatener intends to cause such fear, the threat is a criminal attempt.

Conclusion

Laws prohibiting terroristic threats must be narrow in scope to avoid infringing First Amendment rights. Only when a person threatens a crime, and that threat meets the requirements discussed above, can the person be prosecuted. In distinguishing between protected First Amendment speech and the unprotected criminal threats, courts will look closely at the context in which the words are spoken and the surrounding circumstances.

In California, the offense of criminal threats can be charged as either a misdemeanor or a felony, depending upon prosecutorial discretion. Thus, the law considers it a wobbler. In addition, if it is charged as a felony, it is considered a serious felony and a strike under the law, and thus has consequences that reach far beyond the case at hand. When a prosecutor insists on bringing charges, the defendant needs an attorney who will fight at every stage of the proceedings to minimize the devastating effects of a conviction.

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0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Sat 9 Mar, 2013 03:22 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

You have to have the right "I want to kill something" mindset before you can own a gun.


Maybe that's why Obama wanted to be president... he sure loves killing humans with his drones.

All that firepower at his fingertips and nobody thought to run a global background check on Barack.
 

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