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The Gun Fight in Washington. Your opinons?

 
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 2 Feb, 2013 02:35 pm
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Sat 2 Feb, 2013 02:38 pm


‘THE SECOND AMENDMENT SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!’:
SANDY HOOK VICTIM’S FATHER INTERRUPTED DURING PUBLIC HEARING
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 2 Feb, 2013 02:39 pm
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  3  
Reply Sat 2 Feb, 2013 02:42 pm
@farmerman,
There are plenty of hallucinations being demonstrated by those who are not up for repealing the 2nd.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 2 Feb, 2013 02:53 pm
@spendius,


Try it, just try and repeal the 2nd amendment.

God won't even help those that try.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Sat 2 Feb, 2013 03:11 pm

Gun Debate About More Than ‘Assault Weapons’
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 Feb, 2013 04:28 pm
@H2O MAN,
I wasn't talking about trying it H2O. I was simply pointing out that those who are not up for trying it are wasting their time arguing with you.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 2 Feb, 2013 05:12 pm
@spendius,

You're saying there's zero argument for any American to attack the 2nd amendment.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 Feb, 2013 06:11 pm
@H2O MAN,
No. Not at all. There's just a lack of bollocks and it concedes you the field. Fannying about with mental health issues and stricter background checks and banning assault weapons and limiting ammo clips just lays an expense on the underlying population with no economic utility and thus creates more tension, anger and frustration.

With 300 million guns in circulation I fully understand your position. With no guns in circulation your position is idiotic notwithstanding knives, dressing gown cords and subtle poisons.

It's a bit like Lincoln's Proclamation. How do you get from a large number of slaves to no slaves in one go?

The answer is that you don't unless you just do it.

The argument against the 2nd is that repealing it would start to move your killing and injury rate to European levels. Possibly not immediately.

There are no easy answers.

roger
 
  3  
Reply Sat 2 Feb, 2013 06:16 pm
@spendius,
Remember that the Emancipation Proclamation freed no slaves at all. It applied only to those states in a state of rebellion, and not at all to slavery in the other states.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 Feb, 2013 06:20 pm
@H2O MAN,
If Congress isn't up for banning guns then it is content with the current situation.

I don't see how you can justify banning anybody from having a gun who is not in custody of some sort.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 Feb, 2013 06:21 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Of the 12,664 people killed in the US where the reason is known only 360 were the result of drug laws and only about 750 because of gangs. The majority are the result of arguments.


An how about the people killed in robberies so someone can find the cash for a 500 plus a day illegal drug habit?
Less than 1000 of the murders occurred during robberies, thefts or burglaries.

Quote:

Third frankly you can removed all the suicides from your numbers as ones there is little reason to think that if a gun was not available someone would not just step in front of a bus or some such.
I didn't include suicides. That would bring the total deaths to over 30,000.

The majority of 12,664 homicides where the reason is known are because of arguments.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sat 2 Feb, 2013 06:26 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:

We are now at a hundred year low on our murder rate.

Really? Where did you get that number from?

Quote:
According to FBI analysis, the homicide drop would mean that nearly 280 fewer Americans were murdered last year, which would be the lowest homicide death toll since the mid-1950s.


Quote:
In 2011, the U.S. murder rate was 4.8 per 100,000, the lowest since 1963, when the rate was slightly lower at 4.6 per 100,000.

While last year wasn't the lowest rate in our history, it is near the low end of the range over the last 100 years. The peak homicide rate in the recent past was in 1980, when the murder rate hit 10.2 per 100,000. By contrast, in 1957 the murder rate dipped to the lowest level of the 20th century, just 4.0 per 100,000.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 2 Feb, 2013 06:42 pm
@parados,
Quote:
Really? Where did you get that number from?


Quote:
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-12-19/lifestyle/35929227_1_homicide-rate-randolph-roth-gun-control

The national homicide rate for 2011 was 4.8 per 100,000 citizens — less than half of what it was in the early years of the Great Depression, when it peaked before falling precipitously before World War II. The peak in modern times of 10.2 was in 1980, as recorded by national criminal statistics.

“We’re at as low a place as we’ve been in the past 100 years,” says Randolph Roth, professor of history at Ohio State University and author of this year’s “American Homicide,” a landmark study of the history of killing in the United States. “The rate oscillates between about 5 and 9 [per 100,000], sometimes a little higher or lower, and we’re right at the bottom end of that oscillation.”

Last year’s rate was the lowest of any year since 1963, when the rate was 4.6, according to the Uniform Crime Reports compiled by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.


Where oh where is this run away murder rate that we need to junk the 2 amendment over my friend?
parados
 
  3  
Reply Sat 2 Feb, 2013 09:15 pm
@BillRM,
Maybe you should actually read the article and the numbers in the article.
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Reply Sat 2 Feb, 2013 10:12 pm
BillRM says:
Quote:
Where oh where is this run away murder rate that we need to junk the 2 amendment over my friend



so you think the 12000 or so gun homicides, 20000 gun suicides and 100000 gun injuries every year is just about right and we shouldn't do anything to try to decrease those numbers?
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 2 Feb, 2013 11:12 pm
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
o you think the 12000 or so gun homicides, 20000 gun suicides and 100000 gun injuries every year is just about right and we shouldn't do anything to try to decrease those numbers?


Sure we can do some meaningful things not nonsense such as banning one type of rifles where all rifles together only amount to 300 deaths a year!!!!!!

As far as suicides are concern somehow the idea that if only the person looking to end his or her life would not have access to a gun there would be no suicides such as walking in front of a bus or placing a plastic bag over their heads is beyond silly.

Next how about ending the war on drug and the violence it cause directly and indirectly as it is not guns that result in the leading cause of deaths of young black males are other young black males it is the damn illegal drug trade the same trade that have more blacks males in prisons then were in slavery in 1850.

Mental health programs including in house mental health programs could be of real aid.

In other word we could try to deal with the real problems of violence not the tools that people happen to employed in dealing out that violence.


0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 3 Feb, 2013 07:40 am
Washington DC - - While presenting a litany of gun control measures for Congress to consider, President Obama suggested that “40% of all gun purchases are conducted without a background check.”
In other words, 40% of gun sales are private.
While he was still speaking, one of my friends messaged me and asked: “How does Obama know how many guns are sold privately? The fact that it’s ‘private’ means it’s not public.”
So I started looking through databases for references to this figure, and I soon found myself reading a 2011 study by NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg titled, “Point, Click, Fire: An Investigation Into Illegal Online Gun Sales.”
According to the study, “40% of guns are sold through private sellers.” Moreover, the study claims that “these sales—which take place in many venues, including gun shows and, increasingly, on the internet… fuel the black market for illegal guns.”
Many parts of this assertion are factually flawed or, at the least, very misleading.
First off, the figure of 40% doesn’t represent new guns but guns already in circulation, which are being resold on a secondary basis. The intimation that 40% of new guns are being sold illegally is simply myth-making at best, lying at worst.
What’s really happening is that people who think like Bloomberg and Obama are guessing that a certain percentage of firearms in the hands of Americans have no paperwork on them because their original sale predates background checks. Thus, their goal is to seal off avenues for private sales in order to force Americans to enter those guns into the system.
As for selling guns on the Internet to avoid background checks, that’s another stretch. If a citizen buys a gun from a store via the internet, that gun has to be shipped from a dealer with an Federal Firearms License (FFL) to another dealer with a FFL.
In other words, if a resident of Denver bought a gun from a store in Tampa, the FFL in Tampa would send the gun to an FFL in Denver. Once it arrived, the buyer would pay a fee for shipping, taxes on the gun, as well as any mark-up for services. He would also have to submit to a back-ground check just as if he had bought the gun off a shelf in Denver.
The idea that 40% of gun sales are private is meant to confuse Americans and make them think there is a breakdown in the system somewhere. But there’s not.

Ammoland
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Feb, 2013 08:17 am
@roger,
Quote:
Re: spendius (Post 5242607)
Remember that the Emancipation Proclamation freed no slaves at all. It applied only to those states in a state of rebellion, and not at all to slavery in the other states.


Shouldn't that read, "...did not free all slaves..." rather than "...freed no slaves at all?"
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 3 Feb, 2013 08:20 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
We are now at a hundred year low on our murder rate.


So, from what you show here in substantiation of your assertion above...

...you are acknowledging that your assertion is incorrect--that it overstates the situation.

Right?
 

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