H2O MAN
 
Reply Tue 15 Jan, 2013 04:14 pm
Obama and Biden spewed numerous lies during the campaign and especially during the TV debates.

Remember the one about JEEPs being built in China?

Fiat, Chrysler sign deal with automaker Guangzhou to build Jeeps in China
 
parados
 
  3  
Reply Tue 15 Jan, 2013 04:42 pm
@H2O MAN,
Gee... and that is what Obama and Chrysler said at the time. Chrysler would be opening plants in China but also expanding plants in the US.

Perhaps you should go back and look at what the Romney said. "Jeep, now owned by the Italians, is thinking of moving all production to China,” That was indeed a lie as your own source shows.

Quote:
Fiat, Chrysler sign deal with automaker Guangzhou to build Jeeps in China for that market
That refers to China. Chrysler is building jeeps for the US in the US still.

H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 16 Jan, 2013 09:39 am
@parados,
JEEPs being built in China... what's next?
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jan, 2013 04:27 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

JEEPs being built in China... what's next?

Next thing you know, Obama will move all gun manufacturing to China.


(that ought to scare the idiot for about a month.)
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 16 Jan, 2013 04:32 pm
@parados,
Norinco & Poly Tech Industries produce some excellent firearms.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jan, 2013 04:38 pm
@parados,
Spurt will argue in his unique style. He will just keep babbling and wont listen to the facts.
As Romney said, During the election "Chrysler is going to move ll Jeep production to China"

DONT YOU FEEL LIKE A FOOL SPURT??
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 Jan, 2013 05:04 pm
@farmerman,
Revealing truths about yourself... good for you formerman, good for you.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2013 12:26 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Spurt will argue in his unique style. He will just keep babbling and wont listen to the facts.
As Romney said, During the election "Chrysler is going to move ll Jeep production to China"

DONT YOU FEEL LIKE A FOOL SPURT??


Really FM?

The Romney campaign ad says Obama "sold Chrysler to Italians who are going to build Jeeps in China" at the cost of American jobs. The ad leaves the clear impression that Jeeps built in China come at the expense of American workers.

This was ranked as the biggest lie of the campaign and now we find out it is actually true? The best that can be done is Parados drooling on everything. Typical that it would be discounted by your side.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2013 05:07 am
@McGentrix,
((((YAWN)))))

Quote:

ad



Mitt Romney says Obama's Chrysler deal undermined U.S. workers











An ad from Mitt Romney attacks Barack Obama.


With Ohio’s 18 electoral votes very much in play, the Mitt Romney campaign aims to blunt one of Barack Obama’s key advantages in that state -- his rescue of the auto industry. The carmakers account for about one out of eight jobs there, and many Ohio assembly line workers are backing Obama for a second term.

The Romney campaign has produced a controversial ad that argues Romney would be better for the auto industry than Obama. In the ad, an announcer says, "Obama took GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy and sold Chrysler to Italians who are going to build Jeeps in China. Mitt Romney will fight for every American job." Images of cars being crushed accompany those words.

The not-so-subtle message is that American workers have suffered from the Chrysler deal. In this fact check, we examine whether the sale of Chrysler came at the cost of American jobs.

How Fiat got Chrysler

By early 2008, it was clear that GM and Chrysler were teetering. Both firms had huge debts and high costs. The recession had slowed car sales to a trickle. Chrysler’s owner, Cerberus Capital Management, was hunting for a buyer and had been talking to Italian carmaker Fiat. In late 2008, President George W. Bush approved billion dollar loans to the companies to keep them afloat.

On Jan. 20, 2009, the day Obama took the oath of office, Fiat announced it was interested in buying Chrysler. Obama created an auto task force and in March, the task force told Chrysler to cut a deal with Fiat or be cut off from further government loans. In early April, Chrysler filed for bankruptcy and at the same time, announced an alliance with Fiat.

By the end of April, the terms of the deal were complete and by June, it was finalized. Cerberus Capital had lost its stake, and Fiat held 20 percent of the new Chrysler and had full operational control.

Steve Rattner, chair of the president’s auto task force, said Fiat was essential to Chrysler’s survival.

"If we had been unable to strike this arrangement with Fiat, I believe that we would have allowed Chrysler to liquidate. So it was a great outcome for all concerned," Rattner said.

Aaron Bragman, a senior analyst with IHS Automotive, a financial research group, said the government couldn’t sell Chrysler because it never owned it. In fact, the auto industry and Chrysler were in such bad shape, this wasn’t a sale at all in the conventional sense.

"Fiat paid nothing for Chrysler," Bragman said, but "they poured MASSIVE resources into the company, such as design help, executive staff and personnel, joint development, engine technology, all sorts of non-cash things that helped Chrysler recover considerably."

Chrysler is now profitable. Laid-off union workers have been rehired, and the company is adding new personnel.

Fiat, Jeeps, and China

When Fiat got Chrysler, it got Jeep. Right before the ad came out, Romney told a crowd in Defiance, Ohio, that plans were afoot to shift the Jeep jobs in Ohio to China.

"I saw a story today that one of the great manufacturers in this state Jeep — now owned by the Italians — is thinking of moving all production to China," Romney said.

Romney had been working off an article from Bloomberg News about Fiat’s discussions to start making Jeeps again in China. The old Chrysler had assembly plants in China, but they had been idle since 2009.

Romney’s words drew an immediate and firm denial from Chrysler headquarters. "Jeep has no intention of shifting production of its Jeep models out of North America to China," the statement said. "A careful and unbiased reading of the Bloomberg take would have saved unnecessary fantasies and extravagant comments."

Bragman, the auto analyst, said Romney’s notion that expansion in China comes at a cost to American workers runs counter to the facts. Chrysler’s Toledo plant is running at full capacity, and its Detroit plant is at three shifts. Chrysler is building cars in the United States for sale here.

The production of cars in China is a sign of Chrysler's growing strength in overseas markets. It would like to build Jeeps in China to sell in China. It is not outsourcing American auto jobs.

"I'm astonished that more people aren't thrilled by the fact that an American company on the brink of literal oblivion has come back strong enough to now once again be making and selling its products in the hottest auto market in the world," Bragman said. "It is a phenomenal success story, quite frankly, and one that has sadly been bizarrely twisted out of shape for political expediency."

Our ruling

The Romney campaign ad says Obama "sold Chrysler to Italians who are going to build Jeeps in China" at the cost of American jobs. The ad leaves the clear impression that Jeeps built in China come at the expense of American workers.

The ad miscasts the government’s role in Fiat’s acquisition of Chrysler, and it misrepresents the outcome. Chrysler’s owners had been trying to sell to Italy-based Fiat before Obama took office. The ad ignores the return of American jobs to Chrysler Jeep plants in the United States, and it presents the manufacture of Jeeps in China as a threat, rather than an opportunity to sell cars made in China to Chinese consumers. It strings together facts in a way that presents an wholly inaccurate picture.

We rate the statement Pants on Fire


From Politifact.

Its amazing how you want to support a lie that calls the truth a lie.
We were all around when Romney made the dumass comment that said that ALL Jeep manufacturing was gonna switch to China. We all understood that a Jeep Op would be done in China to serve the Chinese market(And it would happen at an existing facility that lay idle in country). Try to spin it anyway you wish McG, the facts are the facts, try not to deny them, you look silly. I expect it from spurt, hes a toadie with few brains in his head, but usually you at least try to void such twisting of the truth. Todays different I guess.
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2013 05:24 am
@farmerman,
FWIW, I heard the CEO of Chrysler./etc. state unequivocally..that the flagship model...the Jeep Grand Cherokee would be made in US and sold ONLY in US/NA - not sold in China or elsewhere...etc.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2013 05:27 am
@Ragman,
you understand that these guys of ours are busy trying to "sweep up" after the disastrous Romney campaign in Ohio where he shoulda not have said lotsa dum stuff.
Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2013 05:29 am
@farmerman,
Gotch'ya. Politics an gettin 'lected sure is one nasty business. Sure hope Romney keeps out of 2016 or any other elections.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2013 05:49 am
@Ragman,
For Europe, there will be presumably a lighter version. because many here, especially the younger ones, would need a different licence class (C1: Large goods vehicle with a maximum authorised mass of not more than 7.5 t; with or without a trailer with a maximum mass of less than 750 kg)
Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2013 05:59 am
@Walter Hinteler,
No. Not according to Chrysler's CEO, His info states that it'll be US/NA only. That's how my ears heard it.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2013 07:37 am
@Ragman,
Might be so. The information here is different. (The European versions are produced in Austria, by Magna Steyr [the former Steyr-Daimler-Puch].)
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2013 07:56 am
@Walter Hinteler,
... and the lights for most/all Jeeps are produced here where I live Very Happy
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2013 11:20 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

((((YAWN)))))

Its amazing how you want to support a lie that calls the truth a lie.
We were all around when Romney made the dumass comment that said that ALL Jeep manufacturing was gonna switch to China. We all understood that a Jeep Op would be done in China to serve the Chinese market(And it would happen at an existing facility that lay idle in country). Try to spin it anyway you wish McG, the facts are the facts, try not to deny them, you look silly. I expect it from spurt, hes a toadie with few brains in his head, but usually you at least try to void such twisting of the truth. Todays different I guess.


Mitt made a statement at a presser that was clarified in the advertising and your going to hold him to that single statement that was not repeated? I seem to recall Obama mentioning 57 states...

Or did I miss the multiple time Romney stated that they were going to ship ALL Jeep manufacturing to China? The ads certainly didn't say that. I really hope you guys aren't going to hold Romney up to that kind of standard.

The deal was that Romney said they were going to move Jeep production to China. Chrysler said no, they weren't. The media went ape **** crazy and now look, Chrysler is moving jeep production to China...

http://able2know.org/topic/192330-151#post-5154105
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2013 11:29 am
@McGentrix,
Chrysler isn't moving jeep production to China.

Geez McG. Get your facts straight. Moving implies that production is picked up and moved. They are adding production in the US and adding production in China. There is no "move" to it.
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jan, 2013 11:41 am
@Walter Hinteler,
"European Grand Cherokees are manufactured in Austria by Magna Steyr."

Correct. They have different model apparently for different markets.
0 Replies
 
 

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