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The War on Terror and the Implications of the Madrid Bombing

 
 
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2004 09:22 pm
Will Europe Change Its Path?
Quote:

Last Updated: Friday, 12 March, 2004, 15:51 GMT
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Europe rethinks war on terror


By Barnaby Mason
BBC diplomatic correspondent

Newspapers in Spain and other European countries are describing the devastating bomb attacks in Madrid as Europe's 11 September - or 11-M, standing for 11 March.

Many Europeans share Spain's shock
America's war on terror has been seen differently on this side of the Atlantic. So how far will that change now?

The suicide hijackings directed at New York and Washington came as a huge shock to Americans. Before 2001, their sense of invulnerability at home was virtually intact.

In contrast, Europeans have lived with the threat of terrorism for many years - from left-wing extremists in Germany in the 1970s, from neo-fascist militants in Italy, from the IRA in Northern Ireland and mainland Britain.

European governments have taken extra security measures in response to America's 9/11 and their peoples have become accustomed to that.

Shock

The Madrid bombings are not on the scale of 9/11. But they are marked by the same ruthless savagery and intent to inflict maximum harm.


Governments across Europe are now rethinking their strategies
That is undoubtedly a shock to people in Europe - even if the attacks were the work of Eta, it is a new Eta.

As the German newspaper Die Welt put it, what happened was the "al-Qaeda-isation" of European terrorism.

Public opinion may therefore be readier to accept more draconian security and restrictions on civil liberties, though that cannot be taken for granted.

There has been much criticism of Britain's decision in anti-terrorism legislation to opt out of a section of the European Convention on Human Rights - the only country to do so.

Response

Governments across Europe are now rethinking their strategies.

For example, a huge operation was already under way with international involvement to protect the Olympic Games in Athens in August.

Now the Greek government says the plan will be strengthened. It has asked Nato to help with security, for example in aerial surveillance.

The French government is calling in the military to reinforce police security for public transport.

The Italians have told the police and local authorities to tighten their precautions.

On a European level, some will make the case for more intense co-operation against suspected terrorists through the police agency Europol, and other EU institutions, as a matter of routine.

Target

Public reaction to the Madrid bombings would be more significant if it turned out that they were actually carried out by Islamic militants.

"That would be a new situation," in the words of the German Interior Minister, Otto Schily.

The same would apply if it were shown that Islamic militants were working with Eta - with a home-grown European group.

Most vulnerable to criticism would be the governments of Britain, Spain and Italy, which strongly supported the US and the invasion of Iraq.

UK Prime Minister Tony Blair would point to a speech he made last week, emphasising the continuing threat of global terrorism and describing it as "a new type of war".

But the Spanish government would have to deal with the accusation that its policies had made the country an al-Qaeda target.

Rallying public support against Eta, the familiar enemy, is a more comfortable situation to be in.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 4,713 • Replies: 66
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Mar, 2004 11:02 pm
I am totally confused. I wrote a post about that and deleted it since even the post was confused about my confusion. I am still dealing with why any group, including AQ, would do that exact massacre .. It presumably disables Spain a bit, but it also may energize Spain's people more against either group.

Whether Europe will change its path should be considered as two questions as the people and the government of Spain (at least) think differently, or did.
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2004 04:21 pm
The current state of the world:
Al-Qaeda show not only that they'll spread terror wherever they feel like, but also they will brag about it and threaten more attacks.


In retaliation:
Good liberals everywhere hide their heads and pray they won't be attacked. (It reminds me of all the cowering townspeople in those old range-war westerns.)


My stance:
It makes me embarassed to be a liberal and *I* have been a liberal for my entire life.


My question:
Does anybody believe that al-Qaeda is NOT scum?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2004 04:34 pm
Nobody I know has defended al-Qaeda, liberal or conservative.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2004 04:34 pm
Piffka wrote:
Good liberals everywhere hide their heads and pray they won't be attacked. (It reminds me of all the cowering townspeople in those old range-war westerns.)


My stance:
It makes me embarassed to be a liberal and *I* have been a liberal for my entire life.


My question:
Does anybody believe that al-Qaeda is NOT scum?


'Liberals' seem to be 'the left' elswhere in the world. I think.

The UK has a Labour government (and Tony Blair is one of the vice-presidents of the Socialist International).

Germany was the first country worldwide to get Al-Queda members to court. (Socialist-Grenn government)

....


and

(just saw, Edgar already answered that :wink: )

I've never heard of anybody, who likes them outsite their own "club".
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2004 05:12 pm
I am seriously angry that al-Qaeda says they attacked Spain on 3/11 to remind us all of 9/11. Whether this is fact or not, it was apparently believed by enough in Spain that they chose to oust the current political party.

It is not enough to not defend them... what is to be done about them? Take them to court?


This is what worries me:

Quote:
...the foreign policy that later became known as appeasement.

Chamberlain believed that Germany had been badly treated by the Allies after it was defeated in the First World War. He therefore thought that the German government had genuine grievances and that these needed to be addressed. He also thought that by agreeing to some of the demands being made by Adolf Hitler of Germany and Benito Mussolini of Italy, he could avoid a European war.



Substitute a few words and it could be written for the current situation:

Many believed that the Muslims had been badly treated by Westerners (bot European and American) after Israel was created and when their oil resources were exploited. They therefore thought that the Arab nations had genuine grievances and that these needed to be addressed. They also thought that by agreeing to some of the demands being made by al-Qaeda, we could avoid their holy war.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2004 05:19 pm
Germany calls for Euorpean Summit
Quote:
Germany calls for EU terror talks
Germany has called for an urgent meeting of European Union interior ministers following the Spain bombings.

The announcement was made after a meeting of Germany's national security cabinet in Berlin.

It comes amid growing indications that the Madrid attacks were carried out by an Islamic group and not Eta.

Germany asked the Irish presidency of the EU to organise a special meeting of the ministers as soon as possible - perhaps in the coming week.

German debate

The German Interior Minister, Otto Schily, said that if it were confirmed that the Madrid bombings had an "Islamic background" then it would mean a new level of threat in Europe.

He was speaking after a meeting of Germany's national security cabinet, which was summoned by the Chancellor, Gerhard Schroeder, after Spain announced it had arrested five non-Spaniards on Saturday evening.

The Madrid bombings have prompted fierce debate in Germany about security measures, with the opposition calling for airport-style security to be introduced at railway stations across the country.

The German government rejects this as impractical, and says it has beefed up security in other ways.

It has also insisted that the Schengen Agreement, which allows travel between many EU members without border checks, should remain in place.
0 Replies
 
Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2004 05:29 pm
In my opinion there is no doubt that this was an al Qaeda attack. I think it had two goals, to punish Spain for supporting the Iraq invasion and to create a backlash in todays election in Spain against the ruling party, that has supported the war on terror. In both case it was, in my opinion, successful. This is not good. If al Qaeda thinks it can manipulate elections in its favor than no election is safe.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2004 05:32 pm
Greater security for London Underground system
Quote:
Train marshals' to patrol Tube
Patrols are being stepped up on the tube network
Plain clothes anti-terror police will patrol London's Tube trains and stations and conduct random searches.

The measures were not a specific response to the Madrid rail blasts, British Transport Police said.

Earlier, Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon urged the public to report "suspicious and unusual things" to police.

Train marshals form part of a new campaign to warn passengers about possible terror attacks in London.

The changes follow a meeting of officials from underground rail systems across the world in London last week.


The patrols include, for the first time, deploying plain clothes counter-terrorist police to key locations
British Transport Police
A British Transport Police spokesman said extra patrols, using plain clothes and uniformed officers, were being carried out at tube stations and on trains and security measures would be constantly revised with the help of anti-terrorism experts.

"As part of the continuing government campaign against the threat from terrorism, police have stepped up patrols on the London underground system", the spokesman said.

"The patrols include, for the first time, deploying plain clothes counter-terrorist police to key locations."

He said the measures were being supported by the Metropolitan Police, City of London police and Transport for London.

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Peter Clarke, head of the Met's anti-terrorism branch, said the capital continued to be on a high level of alert.

"We will do whatever is necessary to protect the public from harm", he said.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2004 05:42 pm
Acquiunk wrote:
In my opinion there is no doubt that this was an al Qaeda attack. I think it had two goals, to punish Spain for supporting the Iraq invasion and to create a backlash in todays election in Spain against the ruling party, that has supported the war on terror. In both case it was, in my opinion, successful. This is not good. If al Qaeda thinks it can manipulate elections in its favor than no election is safe.

On the other hand, this should hopefully send a message to those governments that participated in the illegal rape of Iraq against their own citizenry's opinions that the day of reckoning (i.e.: being voted out) is near.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2004 05:53 pm
Our dead, your war!
Quote:
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2004 06:02 pm
I don't know if any lesson has been learned from Spain as yet. My thoughts on al-Qaeda: Don't let our guard down against them; pursue their structure where it stands by all means necessary. At the same time, formulate new policies toward Arab states designed to redress long standing injustices. Get out of Iraq's internal affairs as quickly as they can be handed a government, designed by themselves. Arab leaders want to make money off their oil. They know they will go down in flames without Western money.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2004 06:07 pm
Interesting. Al-Qaeda conducts terrorists attacks against Spain for supporting intervention in Iraq. Maybe they know something about Iraqi involvement with al Qaeda that no one else knows.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2004 06:13 pm
roger wrote:
Interesting. Al-Qaeda conducts terrorists attacks against Spain for supporting intervention in Iraq. Maybe they know something about Iraqi involvement with al Qaeda that no one else knows.

Indeed. They know that after the US invaded, Iraq became a cause celebre for the defenders of Islam against the infidel. the US created the problem. We brought it on ourselves, and our allies. Bush and Co. are as much to blame for the bombing as AQ is.
0 Replies
 
Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2004 06:25 pm
hobitbob wrote:
On the other hand, this should hopefully send a message to those governments that participated in the illegal rape of Iraq against their own citizenry's opinions that the day of reckoning (i.e.: being voted out) is near.


I do not think there is any excuse that can justify what was done in Madrid on Thursday.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2004 06:51 pm
I didn't mean the bombing, I meant the elections results.
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2004 06:57 pm
It is my fear that the election results will be seen by al Qaeda has a direct result of their actions. The pre election polls suggested that the conservatives were going to squeak out a victory, and this will encourage them to try it again. It is also my fear that the rest of Europe will also apply this interpretation and as a result there will be no international impact from this election.
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2004 07:32 pm
Welll, Hobitbob, of course, even bigger than the Iraq debacle is that we've allowed Israel to exist. How should we appease the Arab militants in that quarter?
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Mar, 2004 08:06 pm
Piffka wrote:
Welll, Hobitbob, of course, even bigger than the Iraq debacle is that we've allowed Israel to exist. How should we appease the Arab militants in that quarter?

Honest answer? Push for the two state solution.
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Mar, 2004 12:30 am
Isn't that what we've been doing? Trying to get the Palestinians to agree to cooperate with the Israelis is like trying to mix oil & water. Everytime another bomb goes off both sides harden their resolve further. The problem is, there is no answer and there will be no peace.


Quote:
Latest news 2 hr. 13 min. ago: ASHDOD, Israel - Two Palestinian suicide bombers attacked this closely guarded Israeli port Sunday, killing 11 Israelis and wounding 18 in the first deadly assault on a strategic installation in more than three years of Israeli-Palestinian fighting.

Sunday's bombings could signal that bombers were trying to carry out a so-called "mega-attack." Many of the bombings since 2000 targeted buses, cafes and markets, where a large number of people gather, but the death toll in each attack never rose above 30. In recent months, security forces said they had stopped dozens of planned attacks every day.

It is impossible to seal the entire country hermetically."

Moshe Karadi, police chief of southern Israel, said the bombers were using a different type of bomb than usual and may have been trying to blow themselves up next to tanks of bromide or other dangerous chemicals stored in the port, causing far greater casualties as clouds of poisonous gas billow about. The explosions went off some way from the chemical storage area, possibly prematurely.

In 2000, Palestinians tried to blow up Israel's main fuel depot, outside Tel Aviv, setting off explosives under a tanker truck. The fuel did not ignite, but officials warned that a successful attack of that type might have resulted in thousands of casualties.

Hamas and the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, militants with links to Yasser Arafat's Fatah party, claimed joint responsibility for the attack.
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