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That person is… (me/I/myself?)

 
 
Danny84
 
Reply Tue 1 Jan, 2013 10:18 pm
My friend and I got into a debate over the proper word to use in this sentence. Whereas my friend, who takes Latin, contends that the proper phrasing is either "that person is I" or "that person am I," I insist that "me" should be used.

He claims that the verb "to be" takes two subjects, and that "that person" and "I," being equivalent, can be used interchangeably.
I disagree: to me, "that person" is the only subject, and "me" should therefore be used as the object of the sentence. I also argued that a contradiction would arise if "I" and "that person" were both subjects, since "I" demands the first-person conjugation "am," while "that person" demands the third-person conjugation "is." Also, if "that person" is interchangeable with "I," then "myself" should be used since the verb is reflexive.

We went on arguing about this for about half an hour and reached no consensus. What is the correct way to write the sentence?
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Type: Question • Score: 2 • Views: 5,723 • Replies: 11
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fresco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jan, 2013 01:28 am
@Danny84,
Smile
In this case the consenus of opinion is likely to be "me".

NB Historically there was no such topic as "formal English grammar" until Latin teachers were recruited to advise on teaching the English lower classes how to "use their own language". And post Chomsky, grammarians argue there is no such thing as "correct English", only "socially appropriate" language between speakers of the same dialect in particular contexts. In the case of "writing", the nature of the audience and context is assumed and can result in conventional stylistic forms (business letter etc).

0 Replies
 
TheParser
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jan, 2013 06:25 am
@Danny84,
Hello, Danny:

1. I am a very old man (75), so I feel more comfortable following the rules.

a. Therefore, I believe that your friend is "correct" when he insists on "That person is I."

2. First, may I disagree with your use of the word "object" to describe "me" or "I"? I believe that those pronouns do not qualify as an "object." I believe that most teachers prefer the word "complement." (An object is like "me" in "He helped me.")

3. Second, In 2013, I am pretty sure that 99.99% of Americans would say "That person is me." So -- in terms of the real world -- YOU are correct.

4. If you knock on someone's door, and someone inside asks, "Who is it?" how would you answer?

a. I assume that you would say, "It is me."
b. I assume that your friend would say, "It is I."

5. If you check your grammar books, they will probably agree that "It is I" is correct, but the newer ones will probably admit that nowadays "It is me" is acceptable. (Even on tests?)

6. Maybe it is only my imagination, but I can easily understand why "It is I" is correct.

a. "is" is often an elegant way to write the symbol =

b. It = I

c. I = It

d. On both sides, you need EQUALITY.

e. If you say "It is me," then you are saying "It = me." Right?

i. Following the "equality" rule, the other way would be "Me is it." Would you ever speak that way? Of course, not.

7. I have visited many grammar forums. All of them agree that nowadays almost all native speakers say something like: "Look at this photo. That person near the tree is me!"

a. Like you, I visit grammar forums in order to learn proper English. So it appears that nowadays "It is me" is proper English. In fact, I suspect that some people (who know the rules) avoid "It is I" because they do not want people to think that they are "showing off" their superior knowledge of grammar. And (ironically) if you do say "It is I," most people (who do not know the rule anyway) will respond: What's wrong with you? Don't you know that you should say "It is me"? (!!!)


James
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jan, 2013 07:21 am
@TheParser,
Next ! Laughing
nextone
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jan, 2013 07:44 am
@fresco,
Who is that person?
I am that person.

Casual, everyday usage. Who's that? Me.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jan, 2013 09:26 am
@Danny84,

This is a wee bit tricky, although over-complication does not seem to be a disqualifier here!

"It is I" is grammatically correct, although it is held nowadays to be a bit stuffy. "It's me" is commonly acceptable as an alternative.

Therefore as an extension of this, "That person is I" might be thought of as correct, but far more commonly "That person is me" would be preferred nowadays.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jan, 2013 09:49 am
If you want to sound as if you are in a movie from the 1940's about the Kings of England, say "It is I."

If you want to be one of the guys, say "It's me."

Joe(The choice is yours and I have friends who use both usages.)Nation
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jan, 2013 12:29 pm
I am reminded of an episode from one of Richmal Crompton's "William" books. These were written in the first half of the 20th Century about a lovable rascal of an 11 year old boy who is always getting into scrapes and who generally manages to outwit the adults around him.

Background: William had a catapult (forbidden and now confiscated) and a neighbour's greenhouse (glasshouse) has suffered several smashed panes. The neighbour (rightly) suspects William, and has spoken to William's father, demanding financial recompense, which is likely to cancel William's pocket-money for the foreseeable future.

Father: William, do you know how the panes on Mr Smith's greenhouse came to be broken?

William: It was me, Father*.

Father: It was I, William.

William: Jolly decent of you to take the blame like that, Father!

*This is how middle class English kids addressed their parents c.1930. My own father called my grandparents "Mother" and "Father".


nextone
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jan, 2013 02:01 pm
@contrex,
Oh gentle days of yore and your parents, when a person was addressed as Mother, six letters sufficed, and PG wasn't a movie rating.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jan, 2013 02:17 pm
@nextone,
nextone wrote:

Oh gentle days of yore and your parents, when a person was addressed as Mother, six letters sufficed, and PG wasn't a movie rating.


Six letters sufficed for what? And what else was PG?

nextone
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jan, 2013 08:29 pm
@contrex,
Mother was a term of respect and not the first part of a compound word epithet.

Parental guidance actually took place.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jan, 2013 09:24 pm
@TheParser,
McTag:
Quote:
"It is I" is grammatically correct, although it is held nowadays to be a bit stuffy. "It's me" is commonly acceptable as an alternative.

Therefore as an extension of this, "That person is I" might be thought of as correct, but far more commonly "That person is me" would be preferred nowadays.


James:
Quote:
1. I am a very old man (75), so I feel more comfortable following the rules.


There is no rule that makes one correct or grammatical and the other incorrect and ungrammatical. The only way that something is grammatical or becomes grammatical is when native speakers using language make it so.


This has long been the tale told but it is false.

Consider all the changes that have occurred just with the English case system. Are we to consider 'you', plural and singular ungrammatical/incorrect but okay because they are sanctioned by usage.

Does it mean that thee/thou/thy/thine are correct and grammatical?

Both are grammatical and both are correct. They both see use in different registers and for different circumstances.





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