Conservative?/Liberal?

I'm "independent" (definately not democratic or republican) but leaning towards conservative.

<grins at dyslexia's post>

I also didnt vote in the poll cause I'm not in there, for the reasons dlowan mentions.

I consider myself a leftist.

I have a slight problem with that, though. Cause I havent got much up with collectivism. I mean, collective responsibility for each other, sure - pay our taxes (raise 'em, even), to make sure none of my neighbours will go hungry and noone has to forego on proper health care - sure. But conceptually, the whole rhetorics, the whole mentality, about collectivism dont do much for me. So that kinda stops me from a more than vaguely sentimental attachment to socialdemocrats or socialists.

So where does an individualist leftist go, in this age where most anarchists have turned "anti-globalist" - which usually comes down to standing up for our right to put up trade barriers, in order to protect "our" small, organic farmers from those darned third world's peasants who are trying to make a buck ... ?

Luckily, there's the Greens. Socially (extremely) tolerant, economically a little more flexible than the socialdemocrats, but with a radical heart. Able to be for free global trade and radical income distribution. Thats me.

Only problem is I dont care all that particularly much about the environment. Which I admit is a bit odd for a Green.

<sighs>

second that
minus the dockers

That the poll is incomplete was recognized from the onset. I changed the question to "closest" as I know that the multitude of definition for political (or plainly idealist) standings are innumerable. The poll, nevertheless, was intended to demonstrate a point, one that will be made after 10 days when I can check the results.
I myself cannot define my sentiments with the poll options. That I lean conservative is known, but that is because I respect strong leadership and sense of direction in a national leader. Unfortunately these days strength and leadership are better manifest in foreign affairs, as countries are somewhat more united when facing outside predicaments. One opinion of recent times is that the "liberal" (definition not perfect), American presidents have not demonstrated enough of that [leadership] when decisive decisions were required in the foreign arena.

Personally, I am socially liberal, but I disagree with the do-what-thou-wilt-shall-be-the-whole-of-the-law attitude some of us exercise. On the endless matter of policies I can only offer three quotes that cast some (underline some) light on a view.

The first makes me chuckle, but relates more to my preference in leadership: "A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel." Robert Frost

The second and third I believe are related. Interpret what you will, I'd be happy to hear what the two compiled mean to you. "Liberal: a power worshipper without power." George Orwell
"Conservative. noun. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from a liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." Ambrose Bierce

Guess

I've never really liked the labels of "conservative" and "liberal".

As an engineer, I believe we should do what works, regardless of what label is on it. The funny thing is, we have about 2500 years of reasonably well documented history. The same actions and policies fairly continually work throughout history, while other actions and policies continually do not work throughout history. And yet we keep on having national debates on issues that should have been resolved millenia ago.

Which actions and policies have worked continually throughout history, Jim? Which haven't?

I think liberals are mostly people with misguided good intentions. They want to do so many things that sound great - but don't seem to pay attention to how succesful they are or how they work in the long run.

IB - what has worked through history? How about consuming less than you produce, encouraging savings, funding research and development, and a strong educational system.

What doesn't work? Allowing immigration at a rate faster than you can assimilate the immigrants, having a substantial percentage of your population be perpetual wards of the state, cummulative tax rates over 50%, deficit spending and the accompanying debasement of the currency.

For just a few on either side.

I agree, Jim. History is a source that is too often ignored in politics! It's too bad that what sounds good isn't always what is good.

If Lusatian leans, what the smeg does he call freefall?

What does it reveal about the pollster if there are two ways to be a conservative but only one way to be a liberal?

Leaning? Please forgive me if I choke!

<slapping wilso on the back>


Funny how those terms mean wildly different things to different people. We sure don't have a common understanding of liberal or conservative round here.

Wow! Some strong opinions with no rancor, personal attacks, or apoplexy.

I believe that communists and capitalists share a philosophical view that man is an economic animal. In the long run, both claim, my system will do the most good for the most people. In the mean time, both grudgingly admit, some people will have to suffer and sacrifice for the good of the whole. These are the true believers.

That puts me in agreement with Jim the engineer.
We should do what works with a minimum of ideological grandstanding.

-------------------------
To God what is God's, to Caesar what is Caesar's.
To humans - what?

Mankind deserves sacrifice -- but not of mankind.

Aphorisms by Stanislaw J. Lec

I am as liberal as you can get on most government issues. (Other than abortion) What can I say after that?

I would have to radically move to the right to get to where Dys is!

I am very conservative (if that is called conservative) on certain issues like government deregulation, tax simplification, feds giving more power/moey to states, decreasing federal government sponsored social programs (ex: social security.) I want to get rid of the rascist policy of affirmative action (which allows us to legally discriminate) and think the federal government should be primarily concerned with what it was created for - foreign politics/war. I am for the second amendment (against gun-control laws.)

On the other hand, I hold views that are considered "liberal." I want better education distributed more evenly with a ticket system like Gore was proposing. I am firmly against the government deciding what people can and cannot do with their own bodies, and that is why I am pro choice and want stem cell research. I want privacy laws, and I want to encourage free trade in foreign countries - which also helps prevent wars because of economic ties. I also think we should do no business with countries with blatant disregard for the human rights of its people (China.) Usually trade benefits another country, but not when the benefit goes to the government and not to the people. I think it's ridiculous for anyone to believe we should not have separate church and state, but I will defend the right of the church goers to have nativity scenes and practice freely (as long as not on official government property: ex: the courthouse.)


People should believe in what they think is right - not what other people group into categories for them to believe is right. You should chose a party whose views you believe would most benefit America. That doesn't mean you agree with everything that party does or stands for. I'm still thinking about voting for Libertarians (even though they are extremist) because their soft-core goals are things that I like. I'm also thinking about voting for nader if he gets on the ballot. Not sure yet. I definately won't be voting for Republicans or Democrats.

I have a healthy scorn for American conservatism -- and while I am able to laugh off someone mistaking me for a liberal, if I am mistaken for a conservative, I goddam near go ballistic.

And...things being what they are, I am occasionally mistaken for both.

Here's something the regulars have heard me say before, but as a newbie, you are hearing it for the first time:

On a scale with liberals at 1 and conservatives at 10 -- I can be found at position "P."

I'm an iconoclast -- neither liberal, conservative, nor middle of the road.

Hope that answers your question.


By the way -- welcome to A2K.

You did say "Hi' to Craven, right?