How can something come from nothing?

@Albuquerque,

you folks invent gods cause you need them. If supportive evidence abounded Id be on the same wagon. Im both agnostic because I dont know, but Im atheistic because , cause I really dont see where thhe concept needs to exist.

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@Frank Apisa,

I am not questioning your lack of belief in gods.

I am questioning your lack of belief in human rights.

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@Albuquerque,

Quote:

One cannot claim silence when silence speaks miles. There is a distinction between what one claims to be and what one actually is!

Your poesy claims that some force exists yet noone , (I repeat NOONE) has ever been able to draft any evidence .
A basic need for order is your way. We are actually under no obligations to buy in.

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@farmerman,

as Dawkins onc said something like this,(I praphrase)
Faith is the great cop-out. It is an automatic acceptance without exercising ones brain in the search and review of evidence

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

AND IT IS MY OPINION THAT THE BIGGEST (AND SMALLEST) ACTS OF GENOCIDE IN HUMAN HISTORY ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE.

What is this opinion based on?

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@farmerman,

Quote:

as Dawkins onc said something like this,(I praphrase)
Faith is the great cop-out. It is an automatic acceptance without exercising ones brain in the search and review of evidence

That is surely not my position. I have a grave distaste for blind opinion.

You still don't grasp that having an inescapable hope for order is BIOLOGICALLY necessary to stay alive and don't shoot yourself in the head.

And you still haven't yet grasped that a final order is not subject to evaluations of any kind. In fact it is the very old mantra of Science, "whatever is the case"!

Finally you still haven't yet grasped that total lack of order and rationality is the death of speech and discourse itself...the very same speech that tries to speak up for the possibility of disorder! (A contradiction in terms)

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@Albuquerque,

...oh by the way ID has nothing to do with what I am "selling" here as the minimal viable product of "God"...

Rationality and Unity in Reality is not a matter of free will or designers. It is ABOUT what is the case in the mechanics of information trade, the structure itself! Nothing justifies it, IT IS!

Again:

Quote:

I go as far as to claim Science on this topic has misunderstood itself its own goal and above all HISTORY!

Whether you can clearly see why this is the case is not my problem...

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@Albuquerque,

I think it is, but Im not a judge.

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Side note:

It is ironic, 2 days ago I was lucky enough to baptize one of my ships in Star Citizen HMS Beagle before anyone else thought of it and took the name...the name for the ship is permanent and unique!
Long ago when I got into University one of my first thesis and goals was to extend Darwinism well beyond the scope of Biology...the idea of Darwin it is present everywhere, from the development of languages and cultures up to Economy and even in Geology Chemistry or Physics if one stretches the level of abstract thinking far enough!
Matter and Anti-matter had the first heads up right after the Big-Bang!
We are here because matter won by a small margin.

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@Albuquerque,

Quote:

You still don't grasp that having an inescapable hope for order is BIOLOGICALLY necessary to stay alive and don't shoot yourself in the head

HOPE v EVIDENCE are several poles apart

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@Albuquerque,

Quote:

Finally you still haven't yet grasped that total lack of order and rationality is the death of speech and discourse itself...the very same speech that tries to speak up for the possibility of disorder! (A contradiction in terms)

I just got done commenting on "Speaking in Tongues". Apparently we have it in scientistic display .

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@farmerman,

Well of course one is talking about what one deep down necessarily expects as a living biological entity. Hope is precisely the topic! We are debating intellectual honesty here, namely the distinction between what one knows and what one hopes in the process of coming to know.
That said, one cannot have an intellectual project of any kind if one does not hope for Order!

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@Albuquerque,

That would certainly pre select many of your outcomes. Most evolutionary biological science doesnt traffic in"hopes" . The evidence alone expands our horizon.

I wouldnt want to work in an interdisciplanary and multidisciplanary investigation with folks who only think in one direction.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

I just got done commenting on "Speaking in Tongues". Apparently we have it in scientistic display .

The entire endeavour of Science is based on the idea that the World is fundamentally intelligible, which of course is a metaphysical stance we more or less all have as Biological entities.

...as for "speaking in tongues" what on hell do you mean when you use the word "accident" or "randomness"? I sure as hell don't know what it means nor what the fracking logic is entailed on such linguistic dissertation...if the world is one and not a metaphysical never end display of Universes in the so called Multiverse that we cannot ever observe then History is one and as such a fair coin or pair of dices has a very specific track in history.

Now I go along with Darwin because what he had to say was fundamentally correct and was perhaps the best Scientific idea Humanity ever had.
That out of the way "random mutations" where the link of cause and effect is broken and one appeals to ocus pocus magic by invoking words like random means nothing to me. It never did.

The pragmatical use of the word random means just statistical averaging. But if taken seriously then it goes FUNDAMENTALLY against all Science has ever preached. It isn't better than the worst Religion has to offer and I just don't go along with it.

...and don't even get me started on the ocus pocus of quantum Physics...it is way past speaking in tongues...

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@farmerman,

I often get the sensation that you deliberately sabotage what I mean as I don't fancy you as being dumb...

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@farmerman,

Now tell me what would you ditch first, Cause and Effect or Randomness?
Those two are not compatible!

...perhaps you do have a creative insight on what Randomness is at its essence like being a Universal attractor like the ones we see on fractals...but then randomness is not really really random it just seems like it. Complex does not mean magical.

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@Albuquerque,

...by the way don't get confused Farma....don't get your alarms all ringing because one is debating Randomness not being what it seams...the alternative is not a Designer nor a fairy in the sky.

As Time itself is not what it seams like Einstein demonstrated Reality has no one on the driving seat. In fact as a whole there is no driving as the driving is already done from the very "start".

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@farmerman,

Quote:

That would certainly pre select many of your outcomes. Most evolutionary biological science doesnt traffic in"hopes" . The evidence alone expands our horizon.

The driving energy of any great Scientist was and has always being hope in intelligibility!
Evidence comes after hope not before!
The ones who lost hope have a track record of throwing themselves out of a window. Specially mathematicians of great calibre.

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@Albuquerque,

Quote:

You still don't grasp that having an inescapable hope for order is BIOLOGICALLY necessary to stay alive and don't shoot yourself in the head.

Somebody, please, shoot me now.

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@Albuquerque,

Quote:

2 days ago I was lucky enough to baptize one of my ships in Star Citizen HMS Beagle before anyone else thought of it and took the name...the name for the ship is permanent and unique!

Congrats! Your first NFT (non fungible token). Glad you got yours for 'free'.

The fact that these are actually a thing now made me LOL.

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