How can something come from nothing?

@Frank Apisa,

R.S.
God put the demand on Himself. His desire to have us with Him forever broke His heart. He's holy and just -- if He were not He couldn't judge the world. He dwells in unapproachable light -- one has to be after the pattern of the heavenly man (Jesus) to be fit for heaven. Adam was the pattern of the earthly man. Adam, because of his choice to disobey brought the pattern of the earthly fallen man on all who would be born after him. That's why Jesus couldn't have had an earthly father. His father had to be God in order to make a way for the earthly pattern to become the heavenly one -- for you and I.

To answer a previously mentioned question, Jesus is the second Adam.
1 Corinthians 15:41 "So it is written, The first Adam became a living being, the last Adam (Jesus) a life giving spirit."
Adam's disobedience brought sin into the world -- Jesus' obedience brought righteousness back to fallen men and women through the cross. Without the shedding of blood there's no forgiveness for sin -- therefore, Jesus' blood purchases our pardon.

1 Reply

@Truth teller,

Truth teller wrote:

R.S.
God put the demand on Himself. His desire to have us with Him forever broke His heart. He's holy and just -- if He were not He couldn't judge the world. He dwells in unapproachable light -- one has to be after the pattern of the heavenly man (Jesus) to be fit for heaven. Adam was the pattern of the earthly man. Adam, because of his choice to disobey brought the pattern of the earthly fallen man on all who would be born after him. That's why Jesus couldn't have had an earthly father. His father had to be God in order to make a way for the earthly pattern to become the heavenly one -- for you and I.

To answer a previously mentioned question, Jesus is the second Adam.
1 Corinthians 15:41 "So it is written, The first Adam became a living being, the last Adam (Jesus) a life giving spirit."
Adam's disobedience brought sin into the world -- Jesus' obedience brought righteousness back to fallen men and women through the cross. Without the shedding of blood there's no forgiveness for sin -- therefore, Jesus' blood purchases our pardon.

Bottom line: Your god is easily offended...but willing to forgive the offenses. But first you have to torture and kill his son.

If a human acted like that...he would be institutionalized.

Wake up.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

R.S.
There was no sexual involvement in the incarnation. It was miraculous. The incarnation was accomplished fully with Mary's consent. "I am the Lord's servant , Mary answered. May it be to me as you have said." Mary was still a virgin before and on the very day Jesus was born. In Isaiah the 53rd chapter there's a stunning depiction of Jesus the Messiah's birth. 53:2 ""He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him." It's impossible for a root to grow out of dry ground -- this also speaks of a miraculous birth -- something that's impossible to do -- a virgin birth!
By the way, the 53 chapter is suggested to remain off-limits by some groups -- lest they get the wrong idea that it's talking about Jesus.
It was said to be a messianic prophecy for centuries before Jesus was born.
But afterwards it was entitled the forbidden-chapter. I say because it's talking about Jesus 700 years before He was born as many other scriptures prophetically announce -- at various times through the old-testament record.
And Jesus is not a way show-er, He's literally the way. Other so-called messiahs or so-called religious leaders saw themselves as way show-ers.
True, to put Jesus' word into practice builds one's house on rock and is imperative to do so -- yet putting into practice something denotes practicing something not its perfection by performance. He had to be the way literally -- not merely a way show-er. If He were merely a way show-er we could never follow his lead perfectly -- He was without sin literally. "If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (loosely paraphrased.)

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@Truth teller,

Doesn't matter what you claim; intrusion without permission into a woman's womb is rape.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Right. But first the god wanted you to torture and kill his son.

Wrong god. Frank.
All that was needed to substitute for Adam was any angel willing to come to earth, live a perfect life, and die as a substitute for Adam. I presume he could even die in his sleep. (He could then be resurrected, of course.) It was God's adversary who designed the torture and humiliation. Read Job 2:4 to find out what sort of god the resister is.

Could it be you just suffer from god dysphoria?

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Right. But first the god wanted you to torture and kill his son.
Wrong god. Frank.

No it is not. It is the god of the Bible...the god Jesus worshiped...and prayed to...and called his father.

Quote:

All that was needed to substitute for Adam was any angel willing to come to earth, live a perfect life, and die as a substitute for Adam.

But the bloodthirsty god would not be satisfied without someone or something being tortured and killed...so it could "forgive."

You are more than this, Neo. Come out of your coma.

Quote:

I presume he could even die in his sleep. (He could then be resurrected, of course.) It was God's adversary who designed the torture and humiliation.

Rewriting history never really works...and trying to make the Bible say something it doesn't say won't either.

The god could simply have said, "Okay, I am not going to be offended over every goddam thing from now on...and everything you have ever done, I now forgive. I gotta go build another world. I screwed up here."

Quote:

Read Job 2:4 to find out what sort of god the resister is.

Could it be you just suffer from god dysphoria?

No...I suffer from an open mind...and lack of fear of the monster god.

I hope it is "catchy"...and you get it soon. You really need it.

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@cicerone imposter,

R.S.
There have been atrocities supposedly by "Christians."
"Christian nation," is seen around the world as a political stance rather than a true commitment before God. I think you may want to do more research though on what Christianity has done for the world -- it would be a much more sorry place than it is now -- by gigantic estimations.
Also, non-Christian regimes have done far far more atrocities in the world than of Christian ones. I think the parrot has been taught to think otherwise.

God doesn't have to breath in to speak but speaks through the winds of the Holy Spirit. "So it is with everyone born of the Spirit..."
God love you !!

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@Truth teller,

Not 'supposedly.' They are recorded in history from reliable sources - many from their own citizenry and historians.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

The god could simply have said, "Okay, I am not going to be offended over every goddam thing from now on...and everything you have ever done, I now forgive. I gotta go build another world. I screwed up here."

You are right. He could have. But he didn't. You think he should have, right?
Have you ever thought of the consequences of such a decision?

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

No...I suffer from an open mind...and lack of fear of the monster god.

I have been doubting that for some time, Frank.

I 'guess' you are shaking in your golf shoes, hoping your excuse of uncertainty will hold water. Possible? Hmm. . . .Don't press your luck.

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@Frank Apisa,

R.S.
If their were no other way around Jesus dying in our place to save us -- would you have rather He didn't come at all?

As human beings the implications and magnitude of what's going on all around us not to mention the galaxies that have been hung on nothing can be (let us say) astonishing. We desperately need a heavenly view point to get the right bits of information about the higher laws of the Creator. Sometimes in the mix when we consider all the trillions of miles there are in the universe -- we can feel a bit insignificant.

There's a true story about a professor who was a Christian who came for dinner often at a couples house, the wife believed in God but the husband did not.

The husband like to talk about astronomy and the reaches of space in general -- so he welcomed the professor to dine with them for higher conversation. Invariably, the conversation got around to intelligent design and the things of God. This always made the husband uncomfortable and one night he got up from his kitchen chair and walking over to the window, beckoned the professor to join him in front of the window. The husband said, "Professor knowing the vastness of space and your studies that involve such things -- what makes you think that if there is a God -- that he would wave his celestial hand in your direction." Then his wife spoke and said, "think about the size of the Rocky Mountains" the husband said, "what about it" continuing she said, "think of all the tonnage of rock and the material that it takes to make up those mountains, does the size of the Rock Mountains have any thing to do with the love you feel for our daughter." He realized the size of something as big as the Rocky Mountains had nothing to do with loving someone -- neither does the cosmos or its size have anything to do with God's love.

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@Truth teller,

Truth be told, he didn't come at all; they're all mythological stories based on one book called the bible. Facts and evidence are missing.

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@Truth teller,

So ugly people can pretend to be Jesus too . I think that is just the wifi. Luke I think it was gave an account of his description as 30 and having an inordinary head full of hair, so that says handsome, worrisome to people I suppose, ugly people can't compete in the Jesus competition

I happen to know the bible so...lol

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@Truth teller,

Truth teller wrote:

R.S.
If their were no other way around Jesus dying in our place to save us -- would you have rather He didn't come at all?

Why should anyone have to die "to save us?" All the god would have to do is say, "You are forgiven."

But the god apparently is bloodthirsty...and demands that someone be killed in order to do the forgiving.

It is a bloodthirsty myth, TT.

Quote:

As human beings the implications and magnitude of what's going on all around us not to mention the galaxies that have been hung on nothing can be (let us say) astonishing. We desperately need a heavenly view point to get the right bits of information about the higher laws of the Creator. Sometimes in the mix when we consider all the trillions of miles there are in the universe -- we can feel a bit insignificant.

Please tell me you were just kidding here. I do not want to think that I am in a discussion with someone who wrote that in seriousness.

Quote:

There's a true story about a professor who was a Christian who came for dinner often at a couples house, the wife believed in God but the husband did not.

The husband like to talk about astronomy and the reaches of space in general -- so he welcomed the professor to dine with them for higher conversation. Invariably, the conversation got around to intelligent design and the things of God. This always made the husband uncomfortable and one night he got up from his kitchen chair and walking over to the window, beckoned the professor to join him in front of the window. The husband said, "Professor knowing the vastness of space and your studies that involve such things -- what makes you think that if there is a God -- that he would wave his celestial hand in your direction." Then his wife spoke and said, "think about the size of the Rocky Mountains" the husband said, "what about it" continuing she said, "think of all the tonnage of rock and the material that it takes to make up those mountains, does the size of the Rock Mountains have any thing to do with the love you feel for our daughter." He realized the size of something as big as the Rocky Mountains had nothing to do with loving someone -- neither does the cosmos or its size have anything to do with God's love.

You gotta be kidding here also...right?

Please, please tell me you are kidding.

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Ex nihil nihil fiat

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@kiuku,

This is Latin. Whoops fiat is Greek. Fit is Latin. It comes from infinite, interesting point for a word that means things appear. Language literally teaching what they thought about when they formulated these theories, used quickly also to understand Christ.

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@kiuku,

The language itself tells me about their mindset, learning, me learning, as I research this problem, where Latin came from.

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Quote:

Truth teller said: neither does the cosmos or its size have anything to do with God's love.

Right..

Does Jupiter love Saturn? Do the Pleiades love Cassiopeia? Does Orion care about the Milky Way?
Nah, that's because all those billions upon billions of dead lifeless bits of cosmic debris that fill the universe can't feel anything, so they're totally useless and insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
Humans however are worth more than all that cosmic junk put together-
Jesus said- "the very hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matt 10:30)

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"Suppose all sprang from all things: any kind

Might take its origin from any thing,
No fixed seed required. Men from the sea
Might rise, and from the land the scaly breed,

And, fowl full fledged come bursting from the sky;[2]"

This shares common thought with early and later evolution. What if evolution does not support ex nihil. It does not appear therefore that scientific establishments support ex nihil (pronounced ai nile, I guess I shouldn't put that.)

Perhaps it does not support Big Bang. Is the scientific establishment contradicting itself with this poem basically? Do evolution and Big Bang really go together?

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@kiuku,

beginning to elucidate the matter, Big Bang is a cause from absurd, what they said above. Since people are saying it, I'm going to elucidate it. I see people saying it so...

It must not be a secret. They may not be saying it clearly, but it is as an "understood" in the text.

It's basically that it's not a 'how', it is a 'why' and a why requires a thought, a creator. So the Big Bang is telling a creator. And I see people saying it so, I will.

What is a Big Bang: a birth or a heartache (Christ's heartache, a woman giving birth, and so on.) Conceptualizing the infinity as an act of God, a cosmic splitting, as either a cosmic heartache or a real birth, is what people are saying. But it requires a creator though.

Science is teaching creation and people are becoming confused.

If people are saying it obviously someone is teaching it somewhere, but it isn't made clear for some reason and people are saying it right here. "Truth Teller" is obviously saying it; heartache can make a split begin.

If I see people saying it, if it is beneath their text, I see no special value in it, so I'm just going to say it clearly so that this question may be answered just rightly.

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