Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea- Bush or Kerry?

Anyhow people, we won the war in Iraq. We're still working on rebuilding it. But we've been at it for how long now? It took a decade to rebuild Germany and Japan. Let's allow a reasonable time before we pronounce failure here.

And we have 35 countries with troops on the ground and others providing financial aid. I simply fail to see how we have alienated anybody but the ignorant and/or the bad guys.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Anyhow people, we won the war in Iraq. We're still working on rebuilding it. But we've been at it for how long now? It took a decade to rebuild Germany and Japan. Let's allow a reasonable time before we pronounce failure here.

And we have 35 countries with troops on the ground and others providing financial aid. I simply fail to see how we have alienated anybody but the ignorant and/or the bad guys.

The war is not over. The death of terrorism is the goal. (in theory)People, including our own young soldiers and civilians are being horribly killed and mutilated daily. Is there less terror today or more going on than pre 9/11?

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Foxfyre wrote:

Anyhow people, we won the war in Iraq. We're still working on rebuilding it. But we've been at it for how long now? It took a decade to rebuild Germany and Japan. Let's allow a reasonable time before we pronounce failure here.

And we have 35 countries with troops on the ground and others providing financial aid. I simply fail to see how we have alienated anybody but the ignorant and/or the bad guys.

The war is not over. The death of terrorism is the goal. (in theory)People, including our won are being horribly killed and mutilated daily. Is there less terror today or more going on than pre 9/11?

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Foxfyre wrote:

Anyhow people, we won the war in Iraq. We're still working on rebuilding it. But we've been at it for how long now? It took a decade to rebuild Germany and Japan. Let's allow a reasonable time before we pronounce failure here.

And we have 35 countries with troops on the ground and others providing financial aid. I simply fail to see how we have alienated anybody but the ignorant and/or the bad guys.

You sound like an echo of the whitehouse press secretary. What percentage of the troops on the ground belong to those 35 countries, and what percent of the cost of the Iraq blunder is being born by other countries? You consider France & Germany ignorant or bad guys in the war on terror?

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Well done Phoenix. I've voted 3rd Party in the last 3 elections due to dissatisfaction with my choices. This time around; a clear willingness to attack murderers takes top billing, and the bumbling Bush has shown that. He'll get my vote and the Dozen or so votes that I'm usually able to sway.

Ps I too, love the sig quote! :wink:

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Yeah, what Bill just said.

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Mesquite wrote:

Quote:

You sound like an echo of the whitehouse press secretary. What percentage of the troops on the ground belong to those 35 countries, and what percent of the cost of the Iraq blunder is being born by other countries? You consider France & Germany ignorant or bad guys in the war on terror?

Well Mesquite, I could say that you sound like you are quoting the talking point of the week from the Democrat National Committee playbook, but would that be respectful to you or give you credit for having your own opinion about something? I think not.

What difference do percentages make. Our allies are there, supporting the cause with their blood and treasure. To say we have alienated everybody is simply not the case. The U.S. is by far the biggest, best financed, and most blessed of all nations and from he who has the most will the most be required.

And yes, I absolutely see France and Germany as ignorant or at least disingenuous in this matter. They have been unwilling to invest their blood and treasure in the fight against terrorism, but they sure as hell wanted those lucrative contracts to help in the rebuilding process once most of the danger was over. Sort of like those who didn't want to help bake it, but wanted to share in the Little Red Hen's bread once it was baked.

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What's French for "kickback"?
Follow-Up to Kofigate

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Thank you McG! I had accidentally posted an old story about this as new the other day only to have it blown out of the water as never followed up on. This New York Times article goes a long way to remove my embarrassment! I've re-opened the thread Here.

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NP. I was actually thinking of your thread when I posted this.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Mesquite wrote:

Quote:
You sound like an echo of the whitehouse press secretary. What percentage of the troops on the ground belong to those 35 countries, and what percent of the cost of the Iraq blunder is being born by other countries? You consider France & Germany ignorant or bad guys in the war on terror?

Well Mesquite, I could say that you sound like you are quoting the talking point of the week from the Democrat National Committee playbook, but would that be respectful to you or give you credit for having your own opinion about something? I think not.

What difference do percentages make. Our allies are there, supporting the cause with their blood and treasure. To say we have alienated everybody is simply not the case. The U.S. is by far the biggest, best financed, and most blessed of all nations and from he who has the most will the most be required.

The difference is about a billion dollars a week that has been diverted from the war an terrorism (militant Islamic fundamentalists). The war in Iraq has not weakened them, it has provided a new cause and training ground.

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And yes, I absolutely see France and Germany as ignorant or at least disingenuous in this matter. They have been unwilling to invest their blood and treasure in the fight against terrorism, but they sure as hell wanted those lucrative contracts to help in the rebuilding process once most of the danger was over. Sort of like those who didn't want to help bake it, but wanted to share in the Little Red Hen's bread once it was baked.

France, Germany and Spain were among the first countries to start making arrests after 9/11. The Spanish government joined us in Iraq against the will of 90% of the population. Once again the war on terror is against militant Islamic fundamentalism. This administration came into office with plans to invade Iraq and has not wavered.

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I, for one, am still awaiting proof of your allegations regarding the plans for Iraq. All you have is hearsay and innuendo, but no proof.

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McGentrix wrote:

I, for one, am still awaiting proof of your allegations regarding the plans for Iraq. All you have is hearsay and innuendo, but no proof.

Please McG, from the PNAC papers to top insiders such as O'neill and Clark, the evidence is obvious.

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mesquite wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
I, for one, am still awaiting proof of your allegations regarding the plans for Iraq. All you have is hearsay and innuendo, but no proof.

Please McG, from the PNAC papers to top insiders such as O'neill and Clark, the evidence is obvious.

Then it should be easy to reproduce. Show me where it is and explain to me how it proves the Bush administration came into office with plans to invade Iraq and has not wavered.

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Personally, I would rather see a strong Libertarian candidate.

So would I, in my heart of hearts. I really doubt though that any libertarian or Libertarian presidential candidate would be viable in the forseeable future. Many people in the US are too dependent on big daddy government to supply their needs. The era of the rugged individualist, the kind of people who made this country great, sadly, has been taken over by a nation of "what have you done for me lately"!

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I really doubt though that any libertarian or Libertarian presidential candidate would be viable in the forseeable future.

Nor do I. So it becomes a question of, "who will screw me the least"?

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Many people in the US are too dependent on big daddy government to supply their needs.

I couldn't agree more, and it plaques both sides of the aisle. We need the government to protect us from ourselves.

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CQ wrote:

So it becomes a question of, "who will screw me the least"?

It didn't become so recently; that's been the choice since the advent of political choice.

Also, CQ wrote:

We need the government to protect us from ourselves.

That's pretty much what government is all about ... more or less from the beginning of the concept. What we have to be thankful for, however, is that we have our Constitution to protect us from our Government. Other folks justifiably can say the same, to be sure, but an awful lot of folks on this planet simply cannot enjoy that claim.

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It didn't become so recently; that's been the choice since the advent of political choice.

Perhaps timber, but I would think there was a time when the person you voted for was actually a person you wanted to vote for, not the person who you dislike the least.

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What we have to be thankful fore, however, is that we have our Constitution to protect us from our Government.

Only if "We the People" make the government adhere to the Constitution.

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Nor do I. So it becomes a question of, "who will screw me the least"?

ConstantlyQuestioning - Exactly- As the political parties stand today, there never is ANYONE that would satisfy me completely. The kind of government that would be ideal for me, would be focused on two major issues............security within, and security without. I don't want the government in our citizens' bedrooms, or raiding their pocket books.

I don't want the government appropriating money that their citizens have earned, only to hand it over to those who have not earned it, while pumping up the coffers of the bureaucrats. There is a place for care of the truly needy, and a compassionate country takes care of their most vulnerable citizens. For the rest, THAT is the job of religious and non-profit agencies, who depend on the goodwill of private individuals and companies to fund their projects.

I want scientists to be free to expand their knowledge wherever their intellect guides them, without being hamstrung by high government officials attempting to superimpose their own religious agenda on its citizens.

So you see, there is no one from the major political parties who can lead this country in a manner that I deem appropriate. Because of this, when I choose to vote, I need to get my priorities in order. IMO, the most important priority of the government is security. So when we are in a war, which we are at this time, we need a president who can stay the course, and root out terrorism, before it becomes strong enough to destroy us.

This is not the time for negotiations. One does not negotiate with evil, or evil wins. This is not the time for a "show of hands" across the world. This is the time to destroy those who would destroy us.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

This is not the time for negotiations. One does not negotiate with evil, or evil wins. This is not the time for a "show of hands" across the world. This is the time to destroy those who would destroy us.[/color][/b]

Precisely right! I find comfort in the fact that one as wise and level headed as you agrees with me on this point. :wink:

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Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea- Bush or Kerry?

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