18
   

Is internet shaming of online jerks okay or not?

 
 
memelissascott
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 05:11 am
@Setanta,
That's the important question, all right.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 09:40 am
@Thomas,
Quote:
I don't think teenagers are that different from adults in terms of developmental biology.


I think you're wrong.
Quote:

The prefrontal cortex is one of the last regions of the brain to reach maturation. This delay may help to explain why some adolescents act the way they do. The so-called “executive functions” of the human prefrontal cortex include:

Focusing attention
Organizing thoughts and problem solving
Foreseeing and weighing possible consequences of behavior
Considering the future and making predictions
Forming strategies and planning
Ability to balance short-term rewards with long term goals
Shifting/adjusting behavior when situations change
Impulse control and delaying gratification
Modulation of intense emotions
Inhibiting inappropriate behavior and initiating appropriate behavior
Simultaneously considering multiple streams of information when faced with complex and challenging information

This brain region gives an individual the capacity to exercise “good judgment” when presented with difficult life situations. Brain research indicating that brain development is not complete until near the age of 25, refers specifically to the development of the prefrontal cortex.

MRI studies of the brain show that developmental processes tend to occur in the brain in a back to front pattern, explaining why the prefrontal cortex develops last. These studies have also found that teens have less white matter (myelin) in the frontal lobes of their brains when compared to adults, but this amount increases as the teen ages. With more myelin comes the growth of important brain connections, allowing for better flow of information between brain regions.4

This body of brain research data has led to the idea of “frontalization,” whereby the prefrontal cortex gradually becomes able to oversee and regulate the behavioral responses initiated by the more primitive limbic structures.

MRI research has also revealed that during adolescence, white matter increases in the corpus callosum, the bundle of nerve fibers connecting the right and left hemispheres of the brain. This allows for enhanced communication between the hemispheres and enables a full array of analytic and creative strategies to be brought to bear in responding to the complex dilemmas that may arise in a young person’s life. Once again the role of experience is critical in developing the neural connectivity that allows for conscious cognitive control of the emotions and passions of adolescence. Teens who take risks in relatively safe situations exercise the circuitry and develop the skills to “put on the brakes” in more dangerous situations.5

With an immature prefrontal cortex, even if teens understand that something is dangerous, they may still go ahead and engage in the risky behavior. Recognizing the asynchrony of development of the regions of the brain helps us to see adolescent risk-taking in a whole new light. This broadened view of risk-taking and the concept of self-regulation are explored in the next section.


http://www.hhs.gov/opa/familylife/tech_assistance/etraining/adolescent_brain/Development/prefrontal_cortex/

I agree that kids learn from mistakes. I don't think public shaming to millions of people they will never meet is productive at all.
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 09:43 am
@ehBeth,
Quote:
I think it's reasonable to expect tweens+ to understand there are, and will be, consequences to bullying others.


By exposing them to bullying (and threats) from hundreds of unknown people?

Consequences, yes. Internet shaming, no.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 09:46 am
@BillRM,
Shooting a kid and saying something stupid on the internet are two completely different things.

The parents of the kid who did the shooting should be locked up for leaving loaded guns around where their kid could get his hands on it.

I completely and totally disagree that he should be charged as an adult. He is NOT an adult.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 10:18 am
@boomerang,
My my we should slap him on the wrist for killing one 12 years old girl and placing in harm way a bus full of other children.

Strange I had access to my father firearms when I was a teenager an it never even occur to me to take one to school let alone wave it around on the school bus.

Of course my parents drill into me my responsibilities whenever I have control of anything that could harm others such as firearms, all type of heavy machineries, and even a high power bow that was mine that could bring down a deer of a human at 250 yards. With a razor sharp hunting tip arrows it was a far more dangerous weapon then most handguns.

To sum up he is not an adult but he did an adult act/misdeed that even a 15 years old should know better then to do and he should be punish to a far greater degree then the so call juvenile justice system allow for.

My concerns is not primary the welfare of the now 15 years old but the welfare of the society including the society children that have the right to grow up instead of having their lives ended by such a minor.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 10:43 am
@boomerang,
Second my concerns as far as the young/teenage bigots are concern is more for the children the racisms is directed at then the ones who are the bigots.

Teenagers are often put in charge of younger children and somehow I would wish the adults who are making the decision to place a teenager in that position of trust to know if he or she had shown signs of being bigots.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 11:36 am
@boomerang,
Quote:
The parents of the kid who did the shooting should be locked up for leaving loaded guns around where their kid could get his hands on it.


Kid=fifteen year old teen?

Once more I like to address the issue of locking up firearms when it come to a 15 years old teenager.

A fifteen year old is not a child that should need his parents to lock up dangerous objects around the home as you would for a 10 years old or younger.

Any teenager that is in the home with firearms should have firearm safety training and very very clear guidelines when and under what conditions he or she can handle the firearms inside the home.

Off hand I do not remember when my parents stopped locking up the household firearms for my safety but it was well before my 15 birthday sorry they did tend to still keep the gun cabinet locked after I reach my mid-teen years however at 15 I had knowledge and access to the key to the cabinet.

One of the household tasks assign to me at that age were keeping the guns clean.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 02:42 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
Quote:
I don't think teenagers are that different from adults in terms of developmental biology.

I think you're wrong.

As I said --- that's where we disagree. I wouldn't bee too sure about who's wrong or right. Scientists have been notoriously unreliable at distinguishing lack of biological development from lack of learning experiences. Check out the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica under "Negro" for just one illustration.

The authors of the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica wrote:
Mentally the negro is inferior to the white. The remark of F. Manetta, made after a long study of the negro in America, may be taken as generally true of the whole race: " the negro children were sharp, intelligent and full of vivacity, but on approaching the adult period a gradual change set in. The intellect seemed to become clouded, animation giving place to a sort of lethargy, briskness yielding to indolence. We must necessarily suppose that the development of the negro and white proceeds on different lines. [...] [T]he arrest or even deterioration in mental development is no doubt very largely due to the fact that after puberty sexual matters take the first place in the negro's life and thoughts.

This kind of argument is horrible, but not untypical. You have confident statements from scientists with impeccable credentials. Most of them wrong. And not merely wrong in a random manner, but biased towards preserving whatever the current distribution of accountability and power happens to be in society at the time. And it's not just true for Blacks either; it's all across the board. You'll see the same underdevelopment argument made about women. (Like Blacks, women can't be accountable for their actions, let alone vote or hold public office. They just haven't developed the brains for that.)

Today you see the same argumets made about teenagers, with similar lines of reasoning to support them. Historical experience should teach us to be skeptical. And that's why I suggest we leave the point of teenage brain development at "agree to disagree", rather than "I'm right and you're wrong".
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 02:44 pm
@BillRM,
This really doesn't have anything to do with internet shaming so I'm not sure why you keep harping on it. Another thread might be a good idea.

But anyway... I'm not saying we should just slap his hand. He should be treated as a juvenile offender, since that's what he is.

He doesn't have your parents and hasn't lived your life. Your experience is irrelevant.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 02:47 pm
@BillRM,
Racism is a problem.

Not saying things out lout doesn't mean the problem is gone. Racism should be talked about in a calm, rational manner in an attempt to educate the racist on the errors in their thinking. Shaming someone for ignorance doesn't make any sense.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 02:50 pm
@Thomas,
And 100 years later we can actually see the brain in action. We can look at the differences between a child's brain and an adult's brain and see the differences.

Yay science.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 02:55 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
And 100 years later we can actually see the brain in action. We can look at the differences between a child's brain and an adult's brain and see the differences.Yay science.

It's true that we can now see patterns of physical and chemical brain activity. But the implications of those patterns are a matter of interpretation, just as the implications of brain volumes and brain shapes were 100 years ago. And the people who do the work of interpreting today are still the same kind that got it so awfully wrong way back when.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 03:01 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
We can look at the differences between a child's brain and an adult's brain and see the differences.


and the researchers you reference say may may may and ideas

it's not clear what those differences (that can be seen) mean
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 03:01 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
But the implications of those patterns are a matter of interpretation, just as the implications of brain volumes and brain shapes were 100 years ago. And the people who do the work of interpreting today are still the same kind that got it so awfully wrong way back when.


yup
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 03:06 pm
@Thomas,
And gravity might be the devil pulling at our heels.

I think neuroscience has a ways to go but I do believe they're on the right track.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 03:08 pm
So if a 15 year old is basically an adult, should adults be allowed to have sex with 15 year olds?

If a 30 year old wants to have sex with a 15 year old are you guys okay with that?

Should a 15 year old be able to drink, smoke, join the military, get married, take out a loan?
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 03:51 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
If a 30 year old wants to have sex with a 15 year old are you guys okay with that?

Yes I am. It's the same to me as a 17-year-old wanting to have sex with a 15-year-old. And even that falls short of what I should do by the logic of your argument: By your reasoning, I should prefer that the 30-year-old rather than the 17-year-old have sex with the 15-year old, because the 30-year-old is the responsible one. Remember?

boomerang wrote:
Should a 15 year old be able to drink, smoke, join the military, get married, take out a loan?

As a rule, sure, why not? The only item on your list that makes me feel instinctively uncomfortable is joining the military. But that's probably a bug in my instinct. After all, I got drafted into the German military at age 18, never mind what I would have chosen to do. And 18 is definitely not hugely different from 15.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 03:55 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
And 18 is definitely not hugely different from 15.
Indeed. Only three years. I don't think, too, that there is a lot of difference between someone who's 51 and the other who's 54.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Nov, 2012 06:51 pm
@boomerang,
Quote:
join the military,
ge


The idea that young people should not go in harm way in the military in the West is fairly new and in many parts of the world still does not hold up.



Quote:
Quote:
American Civil War: The Boys' War

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Figure 1.--A HBC reader informs us that the boy in this Civil War portrait is Johnny Clem. He was the drummer for the 22 Michigan Infantry. He went on to become a "lance seargent" on Generals Thomas's staff. Our reader believes he stayed in the Army after the War and retired as a General. Click on the image to learn more about him.


Thousands of children were directly involved in the Civil War. Older boys served as soldiers. Many younger boys were also invoved, some boys as young as 11 years old. The younger boys generlly served as drummer or buggle boys. Commonly the drummer and buggle boys were 13-15 years of age. Both the Confederate and Union soldiers tried to look after the younger boys. In major engagements they were often sent to the rear when charges into fortifications were planned. In some cases they had to be forced to the rear crying. Such a scene is portrayed in the movie Glory. In addition, over 1 million boys of 17 or under served in the Federal Army alone. Beyond the use of very young boys as deummer boys and buggle boys, about 1 million boys 17 years of age and under fought with the Federal Army alone. Almost surely very large numbers of similarly aged boys fpught with the Conderacy, although actual records are less available. So many boys served in both the Federal and Confederate Army that one author has suggested calling the American Civil War the Boys' War.
0 Replies
 
 

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