Is internet shaming of online jerks okay or not?

@JPB,

It's probably because of the squirrels and all that...

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@JTT,

Quote:

I wonder if there were equivalents on the same social media about Romney.

You mean attacks that he was not a real American or over his Mormon faith?

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@BillRM,

Racism carries with it it's own innate level of viciousness, so taunts that he was white wouldn't really mean much, but I guess I was talking about anything really outlandish related to Romney, Bill.

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@JTT,

Quote:

but I guess I was talking about anything really outlandish related to Romney, Bill.

Off hand I do not remember anything in relationship to Romney that come anything near to matching that Obama was not born in the US, or that he was a secret Muslin and so on.

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@Walter Hinteler,

How do you deal with racism here?

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

But ... what happens when we ("they") have finished shaming racists?
Who's the next to be in the pillory?

Whoever chooses to pillory themselves by posting self-incriminating messages to public fora. The police didn't pillory those racists; the racists themselves did that; the police simply pointed out that they were on the pillory. In other words, your analogy with the physical pillories of periods past doesn't really work.

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@JPB,

Quote:

"Click here to see your arrest record" Huh?

That's a sucker's set-up. Anyone clicking there will have annonced that they at least believe they have an arrest record. A more honest blurb would be: "Click here is you're really, really stupid and you might have an arrest record."

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

The police didn't pillory those racists; the racists themselves did that; the police simply pointed out that they were on the pillory. In other words, your analogy with the physical pillories of periods past doesn't really work.

That webside is private.
And I didn't intend to give an analogy with "the physical pillories of periods past" but used that term in the figurative sense like it's done in German.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Internet shaming, and real world shaming seems to be all the rage these days.

It's almost always directed at shaming high school aged kids and that bothers me on several different levels.

It bothers me to think we have a lot of 15-18 year olds that think this way. Honestly though, I doubt very many of them really think this way. They're trying to show off, to shock people, they don't really understand the potential consequences of what they're doing. That makes them jerks in the same way almost all teenagers are jerks. I was never racist but I'm glad I was never really held accountable in this way for the many idiotic things I said when I was a teenager.

Mo gets mad at me for my constant reminders that everything he texts is open to public scrutiny, and that public perception can become his reality, and that he needs to be really careful and seriously think before he commits a comment to print. Online text has become so ubiquitous that kids have a really hard time grasping the problems it can create. Nothing is private.

Online shaming of adults is fine with me. Online shaming of kids -- not so okay.

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@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

Online shaming of adults is fine with me. Online shaming of kids -- not so okay.

I kind of agree.
But it certainly depends what you mean by "kids" here. (And of what jurisdiction you speak, since in some countries 'kids' can be send to prison for something, they only would get educational measures in some other countries ... ) I do think, however, that kids/youth need to be more aware about what they due. And learn the consequences, if they they don't.

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@Walter Hinteler,

By "kids" I mean anyone under the age of 18 (who I don't think should ever be tried as an adult) but I'd really like to extend that to anyone under 21.

I don't think things like these comments should get a pass though. If I were to catch Mo sending out such texts the **** would hit the fan, totally and absolutely -- but mostly towards myself as I'd be forced to realize that I had done a terrible job of raising him.

Honestly, it seems the more people preach about embracing diversity the more entrenched people get in their prejudices. Being told not to notice something is a surefire way to make sure you notice it.

I really just think we'd be better off if we shut up about it. I find myself saying "So what?" a lot these days.

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@boomerang,

So what?

The outcome of so what is the so call kids get the idea that such behaviors is acceptable and like minded "kids" find each other and reinforce the idea that such racism is no big deal and just a way of being daring.

Shaming them by holding up their postings up for non-like minded people in their lives to see seem one hell of a good method to make the behavior less common.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Same as in English, as I'm sure you both know.

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@BillRM,

He's gay? So what.
She's black? So what.
S/he's fat? So what.
The President is a black man? So what.

These kids are being outed in a way that will not change their hearts and minds. People are outing these kids, notifying their schools in an attempt to get them kicked out, looking to see if they've applied for scholarships and notifying the scholarship committees, etc. I don't think that's playing fair.

Kid's are unformed, they don't have enough life experience, they say stupid **** all the time, they like to shock. Should their lives be ruined by it? I don't think so.

Shaming someone will not make them change their mind. They might pretend to change their mind, though, and I think driving racism underground makes it much more dangerous.

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@boomerang,

Quote:

These kids are being outed in a way that will not change their hearts and minds. People are outing these kids, notifying their schools in an attempt to get them kicked out, looking to see if they've applied for scholarships and notifying the scholarship committees, etc. I don't think that's playing fair.

It's totally fair.

On the internet, you live by the sword, you die by the sword. Go around spreading ****, and you cannot count on anonymity to save you.

Quote:

Shaming someone will not make them change their mind. They might pretend to change their mind, though, and I think driving racism underground makes it much more dangerous.

The point isn't to change their minds, it's to change other people's minds about them.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

That webside is private.

I don't see where the article you quote says that. The article does refer to Twitter and various blogs as places where the original authors published their racist comments. Twitter and blogs are public fora in the only sense that's relevant to this discussion: the entire web can read their content. So it's only fair game that any page on the web can aggregate it and comment on it.

Walter Hinteler wrote:

And I didn't intend to give an analogy with "the physical pillories of periods past" but used that term in the figurative sense like it's done in German.

That's okay, and it's not my point. (As Roger already said, the English usage of pillory works the same way.) The point is that to pillory someone in the traditional sense is to out them against their will. By contrast, internet bullies and internet criminals are already out by their own choice. You can't pillory people who have already chained themselves onto the pillory.

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@Cycloptichorn,

I believe that's true for adults.

I don't think kids understand permanence. If they did, they wouldn't be so reckless. Recklessness is part of growing up.

Exposing someone might cause others to change their mind about them, shaming them doesn't serve any purpose as far as I can see.

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@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

I believe that's true for adults.

I don't think kids understand permanence. If they did, they wouldn't be so reckless. Recklessness is part of growing up.

I don't think this is necessarily true - many people don't 'grow up' at all.

Taking responsibility for your actions is a big part of growing up, so just think of this as giving the kids a helping hand.

Quote:

Exposing someone might cause others to change their mind about them, shaming them doesn't serve any purpose as far as I can see.

They're only 'shamed' if they don't believe what they wrote, or they don't want people to know they wrote it. Exposing them is the only way to find that out...

Cycloptichorn

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@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

Exposing someone might cause others to change their mind about them, shaming them doesn't serve any purpose as far as I can see.

This point will not escape the grownups at the HR departments that will, in the not-so-distant future, receive those teenagers' job applications. Just because anything you say on the web can be used against you, that doesn't mean it will.

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@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

Kid's are unformed, they don't have enough life experience, they say stupid **** all the time, they like to shock.

I don't think very many kids are that innocent or stupid, and it does them a disservice to think they are.

Most 10+ kids I've known since I was 10+ knew/know what rules and laws apply to them and which ones don't and they took/take advantage of that knowledge.

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Is internet shaming of online jerks okay or not?

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