edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 12:01 pm
From the Huffington Post:
WASHINGTON -- A brewing and potentially bitter fight over Democratic efforts to curb filibusters is threatening to inflame partisan tensions in the Senate, even as President Barack Obama and Republicans explore whether they can compromise on top tier issues such as debt reduction and taxes.

A potential showdown vote to limit Senate filibusters would not come until January. Democrats are threatening to resort to a seldom-used procedure that could let them change the rules without GOP support, all but inviting Republican retaliation.

That fight is looming as the newly re-elected Obama and GOP leaders prepare to use the lame-duck session of Congress that starts Tuesday to hunt for compromise on the "fiscal cliff" – the nearly $700 billion worth of tax increases and spending cuts next year that automatically begin in January unless lawmakers head them off.

That effort will be contentious enough without added animosity over efforts to weaken the filibuster. Unless a filibuster compromise is reached, the dispute could produce sour partisan feelings that might hinder cooperation on legislation when the new Congress begins work in January.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  3  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 12:05 pm
@farmerman,
I wasn't disgusted so much by the negative ads; those are to be expected.

Personally, I was disgusted by the outright lies. Chrysler moving to China? Really? And he repeats it after Chrysler denies it?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 12:07 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
That's the Republican position--to place government curbs and regulations on a woman's ability to control her body in reproductive matters.


It has nothing to do with me what the Republican position is . Nor has it anything to do with what I wrote.

What curbs are placed on women's ability to control their own bodies in reproductive matters if the subject is analyzed carefully without recourse to taken for granted platitudes? You start from the very position liberals have created. You want to be a daring acrobat on a flying trapeze and then you want a safety net to remove all the danger and out goes the daring. And then it's money for jam.

Women, real women and not little girls in adult bodies, don't need your help to control them. They are more than a match for the average man. And then some.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 12:14 pm
@DrewDad,
Quote:
Republicans have serious issues with women taking an equal place in the world with men.


Don't you think that decisions at millions of checkouts in shops, mostly taken by women, have anything to do with it? Buyers do not vote for women. Especially if the house is on fire.

I never saw one woman involved in the NJ and NY clear up or in the restoration of power. You're taking tokenism too seriously.

All blokes with two daughters are the same.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 12:44 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
I never saw one woman involved in the NJ and NY clear up or in the restoration of power

Then you missed Sen Kirsten Gillibrand's comments--she's one of the two Senators that represent NY.--and her efforts to get federal assistance to the area.
Quote:
Recent News
11/8 Schumer, Gillibrand Urge FEMA to Approve Major Disaster Declaration for Orange and Putnam Counties »
11/8 Schumer, Gillibrand Urge FEMA to Approve Major Disaster Declaration for Sullivan County »
11/7 As NYC Recovers from Hurricane Sandy, Schumer, Gillibrand Urge USDA to Provide Free School Meals to NYC Children »
11/5 Schumer, Gillibrand Announce Emergency Food Assistance Approved For Struggling New Yorkers Reeling From Hurricane Sandy »
11/3 Schumer, Gillibrand Announce FEMA Has Expanded Disaster Declaration To Include All Public Assistance For NYC, Long Island, Westchester & Rockland Counties »
http://www.gillibrand.senate.gov/


How about Janet Napolitano--The Secretary of Homeland Security--she's been highly visible and vocal. Guess you missed her too.

Electric power is controlled at the state level--by certification of providers--and NY, and NJ, and Connecticut as well, all have male governors at present, although both NJ and Conn. have had female governors in the past, so that's who people were primarily hearing from on the issue of the power companies and their performance.

I see no evidence of "tokenism" regarding women in this situation, or a lack of women involved in dealing with the situation.

I don't know what world you live in, spendi.

cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 12:47 pm
@firefly,
spendi lives in a nether world called the local pub.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 01:09 pm
Quote:
The New York Times
November 10, 2012
A Landslide Loss for Big Money

The millionaires and billionaires who gave nearly $500 million to independent groups in the race to elect Mitt Romney and other Republicans not only bet on the wrong party, they bet on the wrong tactic. They believed that an endless drumbeat of television advertisements would be enough to drive voters away from President Obama and Democratic policies.

It did not work. Democrats not only won the White House, they increased their majority in the Senate and added to their numbers in the House. Although Democratic outside groups spent more than $200 million on ads, the tactic that proved most effective — particularly as practiced by the Obama campaign and the party — was identifying voters in key states and getting them to the polls.

There is something supremely cynical about the notion among Republican conservatives that they could use their ability to make unlimited contributions to “super PACs” and shadowy social-welfare groups to buy an election. It views voters as a flock of sheep, easily hypnotized by misleading ads, willing to believe whatever wealthy industrialists tell them about taxes, jobs and health care.

Granted, television ads have long played an excessive role in American politics, substituting cheap accusations for discourse, but this was the year they went too far. In state after swing state, voters said they were overwhelmed by the din of ads and tuned it all out.

That meant the biggest-spending conservative groups were trounced. American Crossroads, the super PAC founded by Karl Rove, spent $104 million in the general election, but none of its candidates won. The United States Chamber of Commerce spent $24 million backing Republicans in 15 Senate races; only two of them won. Sheldon Adelson, the casino mogul, spent $53 million on nine Republican candidates, eight of whom lost.

The failure of this tactic could have important effects in future elections. Big givers are likely to be more skeptical when people like Mr. Rove come calling. Independent groups cannot coordinate get-out-the-vote drives with campaigns, but may begin thinking about how better to use their money to target voters and build grass-roots efforts, a more positive goal than endless attack ads.

The outcome of 2012, however, does not mean that unlimited outside spending can now be considered a benign force. The biggest danger of allowing the wealthy such an outsized voice has always been that the money binds them closer to politicians, and creates a sense of obligation. Donors gave $64 million to Priorities USA Action, the super PAC set up by Mr. Obama’s former aides, and many of them, including five unions that each gave more than $1 million, will expect to be rewarded.

Many lawmakers in the next Congress know full well that they will need support from outside groups, and donors played on that fear. Last month, for example, Chevron gave $2.5 million to the Congressional Leadership Fund, a super PAC linked to Speaker John Boehner, which has spent more than $9 million to elect House Republicans. As noted recently by Representative Steve Israel, the chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, the donation can be seen as a “payoff” to the House for protecting taxpayer subsidies to Big Oil.

It is encouraging to see that even a few Republican lawmakers are starting to realize the corrupt flood of cash needs to be stopped. There is talk of new legislation to require disclosure of donors by shadowy groups, and of the need to re-examine donation limits. A backlash against the damaging power of big money cannot come too soon.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/11/opinion/sunday/a-landslide-loss-for-big-money.html?hp

Amen.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 01:22 pm
@firefly,
this is a misunderstanding of what happened, it was not that there were too many ads, it was that the masses felt like we were being played for saps by the elite, and so we tuned out the message.

this is not good for your pro police state position in the long run.

money works as a manipulative tool, but not always. repetition works as a tool for indoctrination, but only on the willing.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 01:27 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
this is not good for your pro police state position in the long run.


Where did firefly advocate for a "pro police state?"
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 01:31 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Quote:
this is not good for your pro police state position in the long run.


Where did firefly advocate for a "pro police state?"

in her many years here advocating for state control of our lives, through all means necessarily to get the the utopia she envisions for us.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 01:31 pm
@hawkeye10,
Provide some examples.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 02:22 pm
@cicerone imposter,
There isn't a word she writes which is not heading in that direction even if it is never explicitly stated. She obviously believes that she will be a beneficiary of compulsory nannying.

cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 02:36 pm
@spendius,
Just provide some examples so I can determine that on my own.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 02:53 pm
@cicerone imposter,
She thinks the state should take control of women's bodies. All in a good cause of course. It just creeps up on us bit by bit. Slowly enough for diddies like you to not notice.

From an economic point of view it is catastrophic. But don't worry ci. You and me are old enough to be absent when the time comes. I have no dog in the fight.

Interesting times are dynamic. They become more and more interesting until they become extremely uninteresting. Probably suddenly.

cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 03:03 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
From an economic point of view it is catastrophic. But don't worry ci. You and me are old enough to be absent when the time comes. I have no dog in the fight.


I don't worry too much about the direction our politics takes us just because however our country votes to direct our economy and social lives will not impact us old foggies. However, I did vote to increase taxes to support California schools and local government revenues. That's about as much as I'll do with my "one" vote. Can't control the masses no matter what I say or do; their choice is their choice.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 04:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I think that the more money spent on schools the worse they get. Maybe your local government facilities are not like ours. Here they are palatial and a reverent hush hangs in the air as palpable as that in a cathedral.

I used to booze with the Chief Executive of our local government set up. The palatial offices were only the tip of the iceberg. An iceberg I think our titanic enterprise is on a collision course with.

But it's a long way off and out of sight and so the dancing and singing continues. You do know don't you that our leaders panicked in 2008. They were shown the abyss. These guys are too big to fail. Whether they are too big to save is being worked on.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 04:05 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I wa pleasntly surprised at how Calif stepped up to the plate and approved the proposition on incresed school funding
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 04:18 pm
@spendius,
And there is only the 99% to save it. And sacrifice is the only measure.

The 1% can only be made to save it by a revolution. Due process is no good because the 1% run due process. And they are smart too. That's why most of them are in the 1%.

Did you view that movie Builder linked for us? The Truth it was called. An inquiry into the financial crisis. Two guys in it pointed to the dangers. M Dominic Strauss-Khan and Mr Spitzer.

The confiscations of the Roman financial crises were accompanied by executions. In our more humane times I think allowing them all to retain $2 million is pretty reasonable seeing as they caused this mess.

We workers didn't. We make things. They make money. And who amongst us, with hand on heart, can say we wouldn't have done the same things had we been in the meelee. Jimmy Stewart could have acted it pretty good.

firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 05:51 pm
Quote:
The New York Times
November 11, 2012
G.O.P. Strains to Define How to Close Gap With Voters

By KEVIN SACK and SARAH WHEATON

For four years, the leader most capable of unifying the fractious Republican Party has been Barack Obama.

Now the Republicans find their divisions newly revealed in the raw. By exposing the party’s vulnerability to potent demographic shifts, the 2012 results have set the stage for a struggle between those determined to re-brand the Republicans in a softer light and those yearning instead for ideological purity.

But before acceptance comes denial. And the party’s first challenge, it seems in the immediate aftermath, is to find common ground simply in diagnosing the problem. While some leaders argued that basic mathematics dictates that the party must find new ways to talk about issues like immigration, abortion and same-sex marriage, others attributed Republican losses to poor candidate choice, messaging missteps and President Obama’s superior political operation.

“We continually crank out moderate loser after moderate loser,” said Joshua S. Treviño, a speechwriter in George W. Bush’s administration who now works for the Texas Public Policy Foundation, a conservative group. He said Mitt Romney was part of a “pattern” of Republican nominees, preceded by John McCain, Bob Dole and George H.W. Bush, who were rejected by voters because of “perceived inauthenticity.”

By contrast, Ralph Reed, the longtime Republican strategist and chairman of the Faith and Freedom Coalition, said he would redouble efforts over the next four years to recruit women, Latinos and young people as grass-roots organizers.

“I certainly get the fact that your daddy’s Republican Party cannot win relying singularly on white voters and evangelicals alone — as critical as I believe those voters are to a majority coalition,” Mr. Reed said. “The good news for conservatives is there are many of those who have not always felt welcome in our ranks who share our values.”

The re-election of Mr. Obama, despite the flagging economy and ambivalence about his leadership, left questions that Republicans may sort out only over time, starting with the direction set by the party’s majority in the House and the run-up to the 2016 campaign.

Can the Republicans shore up their weaknesses purely with tonal changes on issues like abortion, immigration and same-sex marriage, along with a repackaging of conservative fiscal policy? Will it require real moderation on social and economic positions that the Tea Party movement and the conservative base consider inviolate?

Or is an embrace of unyielding conservatism required to rally an electorate that has grown cynical about candidates who shape-shift after the primaries?

The debate is already roiling, with early markers laid in postelection news conferences and the Sunday talk shows. On CNN’s “State of the Union,” Carlos Gutierrez, a commerce secretary under George W. Bush and a Romney adviser, blamed the loss “squarely on the far right wing of the Republican Party.”

Countered Gary L. Bauer, the socially conservative former presidential candidate, “America is not demanding a second liberal party.”

The Republican National Committee is undertaking a two-month series of polls, focus groups and outreach meetings about its message and mechanics, with added focus on Latino subgroups like Cubans, Mexicans and Puerto Ricans. Introspection will also be on the agenda when the Republican Governors Association convenes on Wednesday for a three-day meeting in Las Vegas.

“The question really is how do we set the best tone in delivering our conservative message so that it becomes attractive to more people,” said Gov. Bob McDonnell of Virginia, the association’s chairman. “Looking at how young voters and minority voters are voting, it’s an unsustainable trajectory.”

In addition to losing both the popular and electoral votes for president, the Republicans lost nearly every swing state. Although the race was far closer than in 2008, Mr. Romney won two million fewer votes than Mr. McCain did against Mr. Obama that year.

Democrats, once fearful of losing the Senate, gained one seat there and four in the House. They also added seats in state legislatures.

The Republicans’ only bright spot, other than maintaining the House majority, came in governors’ races. They picked up a long-elusive seat in North Carolina, bringing their total to 30, the most by either party in 12 years.

The longer-term concerns for Republicans were revealed in exit polling. While Mr. Romney won the votes of 59 percent of whites, 52 percent of men and 78 percent of white evangelicals, Mr. Obama claimed 55 percent of women, 60 percent of voters under 30, 93 percent of African-Americans and more than 70 percent of Latinos and Asians.

Although the president’s majority shrunk nationally, he won a larger proportion of Latino and Asian votes than in 2008. Among Latinos, Mr. Romney did 17 percentage points worse than George W. Bush only eight years earlier.

Perhaps most ominous, the Latino share of the total vote rose to 10 percent from 8 percent in 2004, and the Asian share rose to 3 percent from 2 percent. The electorate is now 28 percent nonwhite, more than double the figure from two decades ago. That growth is certain to continue; in 2011, births to nonwhites outnumbered births to whites for the first time.

“It’s stunning that Republicans won the white vote by 20 points and still lost,” said Alan I. Abramowitz, a political scientist at Emory University who writes about polarization. Unless Republicans reverse the trend, he said, the rising strength of Latinos could doom their ability to map a winning electoral strategy. Colorado and Nevada could soon join California and New Mexico as noncompetitive states for Republicans in presidential elections, with Florida not far behind.

“And eventually Texas,” Dr. Abramowitz added. “Not 4 years or 8 years from now, but in 12 or 16 years Texas is going to become a swing state. And if Texas becomes a swing state, it’s all over.”

Whit Ayres, a Republican pollster, noted that Mr. Romney did better than Mr. McCain among white voters, and won independents by 5 percentage points, all to no avail.

“It is patently obvious that unless Republicans do better among nonwhite voters, they will cease to be a viable national political party,” Mr. Ayres said. “Obviously, doing something on immigration-related issues, like the Dream Act, is a start. But we’re also going to have to address the fact that younger people tend to be less conservative on a number of hot-button social issues.”

The imperative to reach Latinos may put pressure on Congressional Republicans to compromise with Mr. Obama on a bill that provides illegal immigrants, or at least those who arrived in the United States as children, with a path to legitimacy. Senate leaders in both parties announced on Sunday that they were renewing negotiations to seek a deal.

But the Republicans also will have to overcome the tone set by Republican-led states that have enacted tough new measures aimed at catching illegal immigrants. Latinos will never vote Republican, said Mr. Treviño, the former Bush speechwriter, “if they think your political party just doesn’t want you as a neighbor.”

Republican officials said that meant aggressively recruiting Hispanic candidates like Senator Marco Rubio of Florida and Senator-elect Ted Cruz of Texas, both sons of Cuban immigrants. And they said it required stressing common values, like opportunity, social conservatism and support for small business.

“The conservative movement should have particular appeal to people in minority and immigrant communities who are trying to make it,” Mr. Rubio said after the election, “and Republicans need to work harder than ever to communicate our beliefs to them.”

Mr. Rubio will be a featured speaker on Saturday at a fund-raiser in Iowa being hosted by Terry E. Branstad, the state’s Republican governor.

Ryan R. Call, the state Republican chairman in Colorado, where Hispanics made up 14 percent of those who voted there last week, said the party had to find a way to stand firm on conservative principles while finding a “proactive response” on issues like immigration and gay rights.

“We can’t simply be the party of no,” he said.

But the party’s staunchest conservatives, including leaders of the Tea Party movement, are not ready to yield. Many, including House incumbents from safe districts and deep-pocketed financiers, hold outsize influence in the party.

The conservative strategist Richard A. Viguerie kicked off a news conference in Washington on Wednesday by declaring that “the battle to take over the Republican Party begins today.” He added, “Never again are we going to nominate a big-government, establishment Republican for president.”

Mike Huckabee, a former Republican presidential candidate and current Fox News host, said in an interview that shifts in the party’s approach to social issues would be difficult “because those are not political issues, they’re deeply held moral positions by the people who hold them.”

Similarly, Senator Patrick J. Toomey of Pennsylvania, a fiercely anti-tax Republican, said in an interview that the election results gave him little incentive to compromise on fiscal principles, including in the coming negotiations with Democrats over deficit reduction.

“We’ve been offering solutions, and the people who voted for those solutions were re-elected,” Mr. Toomey said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/12/us/politics/first-republicans-must-find-common-ground-among-themselves.html?hp&_r=0
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 05:56 pm
@spendius,
Here's a bit of itsy-bitsy due process.

The Director General of the BBC has been forced to resign after a mere 50 odd days in office, a world record, for being a silly gump, not being up to the job and for dragging the BBC's worldwide reputation into the mire and making it look ridiculous.

The energising force being naughty rumpy-pumpy. Again.

$2 million compensation. The geezer who appointed the silly old duffer is still going strong. That's the Chairman of the BBC Trust which is as bad as Fox News' No Spin Zone for bare-assed, and with malice aforethought, lying.

Tame stuff indeed by your standards I know but we are only a little offshore island of Europe.
 

 
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