spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 02:13 pm
@spendius,
You have a convenience filter in your noddle. Which is not abnormal.

It's a bit much when you assume we all have the same model in our noddles.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 02:14 pm
@spendius,
Yes, the DOW fell 500 points, but my funds are still higher than they were at the beginning of the year, and I withdrew over $32k (had to withdraw for my eight trips) this year. My wife and my funds for YTD is still 9.5% up, and she withdrew some funds too.

I'm not complaining one iota.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 02:43 pm
@sozobe,
Quote:
This conversation started with why Lash and Finn would consider various demographics to be in the Democrats' "pocket" -- why those demographics tended to vote for Democrats in the most recent election. (Because they want stuff?

These groups, including immigrants and ethnic minorities, have pretty much been in the Democrat's "pockets" for a very very long time--they helped keep FDR in office. The Democrats were the prime force in civil rights advances since the Kennedy/Johnson era. What's new about any of this?

As a life-long Democrat, I can personally say it has nothing to do with wanting "stuff"--there is nothing, in the way of a "hand-out", I've, fortunately, ever needed, or wanted, from the government. That does not mean I don't want the government to provide help to those among us who are less fortunate, because I see that as an obligation of insuring the "general welfare" of our people. I don't want poor children sitting in classrooms so hungry that they can't concentrate on their work--I want school breakfast and lunch programs provided to those children. Similarly, programs like Head Start also give pre-school children below the poverty level needed lunches, health and medical screenings, observations for signs of possible abuse or neglect, and, often a chance to begin learning English--all of which are significant positive inputs into these children's lives, and all of which go beyond the purely educational goal of that program. And it seems that the Democratic party is the main defender and supporter of these sorts of programs on a federal level.

I'm a Democrat because that's the party that shares my views, and priorities, and philosophy of government, most closely, and it's also the party that speaks most directly to my concerns as a middle-class citizen, and as a woman. And I think that others, who tend to vote Democrat, probably feel the same way.

It's certainly no mystery to me why black Americans would overwhelmingly vote for our first African American President--in both his elections. Why wouldn't they welcome this historic opportunity to vote for him--particularly since they tend to vote Democratic anyway. They simply seemed to have turned out in greater numbers than usual, and used their strength and voice at the ballot box. I don't see that as voting for him because they wanted more "stuff". I think a lot of racial pride went into being able to cast those votes for him.

I don't know that the Democrats have really acquired any new constituencies in recent years. I think that the numbers in the Republicans old constituencies, on which they traditionally relied--the wealthy, white men, seniors, the more fundamentalist religious, socially conservative groups--have been dwindling to a point where it's becoming difficult for them to win a national election.

The Democrats knew where their support was, and they concentrated on voter registration, and getting out the vote, and it worked.

0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 02:54 pm
@cicerone imposter,
You mean that you voted Obama for sound business reasons? And we all thought it was because of ypor compassion for the downtrodden and under-privileged.

I expect a lot of others did too. That's what government spending is all about you silly moo.

It is getting enough people to vote for sound business reasons who are not very good at business and stop them voting for sound business reasons for candidates who are very good at business. Give more people sound business reasons for voting for government spending.

The diffusion of power downwards to the people demands it. Not be long before motions in Congress will be voted on by the whole population, the ones that can be bothered I mean, using their submit buttons. At $1 a go. A visual aid showing two columns neck and neck as the votes are tallied.

Like on the TV shows which get people to vote for the least worst singer at £3 a tap. Knocking one out every week and leaving the identity to last.

cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 03:06 pm
@spendius,
That and much more; Obama is for all peoples.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 03:09 pm
@spendius,
No, it depends on "what" government spending. I believe in funding for schools and our infrastructure, and much less defensive and spending on wars. I also believe in universal health care for all Americans.

Obama made our recovery from the Great Recession a reality - even after the No Party tried to defeat everything Obama tried to legislate for our country's benefit.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 03:14 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Over the next two days the DOW fell 500. And hasn't recovered yet

That has a lot to do with the current uncertainty regarding the impending fiscal cliff.

Basically the market is in good shape.
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 03:43 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Obama tried to legislate for our country's benefit.


What else is he expected to do?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 03:46 pm
@firefly,
I made no comment on the shape the market is in. It fell 500 in 2 days. That's the shape it's in. How many trillions is that in capitalisation values on which credit is based?
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 03:49 pm
@firefly,
Anyone who doesn't understand that the stock market fluctuates is an idiot.

A 500 point change in the DOW is barely worth mentioning.
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 03:54 pm
@DrewDad,
It's 4--5% of US infrastructure valuations which is held as collateral for loans.

The Financial Times thought fit to mention it.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 03:56 pm
@DrewDad,
True; that's only 4% change, and most understand that's not even "worth mentioning." Mr. Green

When assets lose 40% or more, than that's something to talk about~!
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 03:59 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
That has a lot to do with the current uncertainty regarding the impending fiscal cliff.

Basically the market is in good shape.


Brilliant article by Aditya Chakrabortty in today's Guardian.

Quote:
America on the edge of a 'fiscal cliff'? No, it's the right peddling scare stories
The economic abyss is a distortion peddled by the US right and Obama's Democrats – just like Britain's left – need to counter the myth


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/12/america-fiscal-cliff-scare-stories
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 04:06 pm
@izzythepush,
There's no need to bother about it anymore then?

Could the Ash die-back disease be a scare story to get more funds for the Forestry Commission?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 05:27 pm
@spendius,
Who said anything about not bothering? You can bother without acting hysterically. The 'fiscal cliff' is totally man made, ash die-back is a fungus.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 06:06 pm
@cicerone imposter,
And BTW, our fund for this month is down only 2%. Why should that concern me?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2012 06:17 pm
@izzythepush,
Well izzy--I don't bother about scare stories got up by the right.

An evolutionist could see the fiscal cliff as a debilitating fungus.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2012 02:31 am
@spendius,
Doesn't alter the fact that the 'fiscal cliff' is just a contruct.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2012 02:39 am
@izzythepush,
I'm sort of hoping the right doesn't come to an agreement, and everybody's tax goes up, and defense cuts of 9.4%. When the next election cycle comes around and they are mad at the right for their inability to compromise with the Obama Administration, they'll get thrown out of congress. They're already pissed, and congress performance approval rating is 10%.

Wake up, America. The GOP is nothing but gridlock in Washington.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2012 04:02 am
@cicerone imposter,
Over a year the 'fiscal cliff' could cause America, and the world, to go back into recession, but not over a month. Obama could wait until the lame duck Congress has gone and ask the new bunch to ratify a budget. They can't all be ideologues, there must be some pragmatists there.
 

 
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