spendius
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2012 05:58 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Doesn't alter the fact that the 'fiscal cliff' is just a construct.


When I used the word "fungus" I meant that the FC has a biological component. Some scientists would say that it is entirely biological.

The whole point of Christian theology is the inhibition of biological drives. Those who confuse the methods used in that process with the actual objective of it are either naive or, if they know, cynical.

For example--

Quote:
The First Council of Nicaea, in 325, forbade clergy from engaging in usury(canon 17). At the time, usury was interest of any kind, and the canon merely forbade the clergy to lend money on interest above 1 percent per month (12.7% APR). Later ecumenical councils applied this regulation to the laity.


Quote:
Lateran III decreed that persons who accepted interest on loans could receive neither the sacraments nor Christian burial.Pope Clement V made the belief in the right to usury a heresy in 1311, and abolished all secular legislation which allowed it.Pope Sixtus V condemned the practice of charging interest as "detestable to God and man, damned by the sacred canons and contrary to Christian charity."


In respect of the Roman Empire--

Quote:
By the 3rd century, acute currency problems in the Empire drove them into decline. The rich who were in a position to take advantage of the situation became the money-lenders when the ever-increasing tax demands in the last declining days of the Empire crippled and eventually destroyed the peasant class by reducing tenant-farmers to serfdom. It was evident that usury meant exploitation of the poor.


Perhaps by the 14th century it had been worked out that such things as credit default swaps, derivatives and the financing of the consumption of luxuries with credit were inevitable if usury was allowed free scope and that it was the road to ruin.

It is in the consumption of luxuries that is the biological component. Or, for those who separate biology from psychology, a psychological one.

The question is whether our governments have the will, or the capacity, to make us repay our debts. On current form they have neither because their legitimacy is founded on popularity.

Looking at the electoral map I think most people would expect the blue states to be more recalcitrant than the red ones in terms of the sacrifices required to repay them. It is possible that the highly industrialised and dense urban populations of the very blue states (over 55% Obama) have no alternative.

It seems to me that adding on a retreat from Christian inhibitions in sexual matters produces a very potent brew.

When exhibitions of testosterone enhancement are greatly admired, a particularly obvious feature in the US, problems are bound to arise because testosterone depresses the immune system and dangerous risks are undertaken more readily. Two NFL players were concussed this last weekend. Did you see the brawl at a NASCAR meet recently?

We need to laugh at testo-junkies. Like in Some Mothers Do Have 'Em. Or Stan Laurel.

It might be a construct izzy but it is our construct. The meek will inherit the earth.



izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2012 06:03 am
@spendius,
Thanks for correcting my typo without comment.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2012 11:32 am
@izzythepush,
That's the "fear" that republicans love to play. They're not able to compromise, and are brain dead with only one goal in mind; control.

They must fail at any cost.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2012 11:58 am
It looks more and more likely that Mr Romney didn't screw up and what did for him was Sandy and the military sex scandal only coming to public attention after the votes were counted.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2012 11:59 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

They must fail at any cost.


I believe I have heard the phrase above in some war movie?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  0  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2012 12:09 pm
@spendius,
NYT - How a Race in the Balance Went to Obama

worth the NYT click if you're counting them

some excerpts

Quote:
But as concerned as the White House was during the last 30 days of the campaign, its polls never showed Mr. Obama slipping behind Mr. Romney, aides said. The president was helped in no small part by the tremendous amount of money the campaign built up, which had permitted him to pound his Republican rival before he had ever had a chance to fully introduce himself to the nation.

That was just one of several ways that Mr. Obama’s campaign operations, some unnoticed by Mr. Romney’s aides in Boston, helped save the president’s candidacy. In Chicago, the campaign recruited a team of behavioral scientists to build an extraordinarily sophisticated database packed with names of millions of undecided voters and potential supporters. The ever-expanding list let the campaign find and register new voters who fit the demographic pattern of Obama backers and methodically track their views through thousands of telephone calls every night.

That allowed the Obama campaign not only to alter the very nature of the electorate, making it younger and less white, but also to create a portrait of shifting voter allegiances. The power of this operation stunned Mr. Romney’s aides on election night, as they saw voters they never even knew existed turn out in places like Osceola County, Fla. “It’s one thing to say you are going to do it; it’s another thing to actually get out there and do it,” said Brian Jones, a senior adviser.



<snip>

Quote:
As the summer came to a close, the Romney campaign was stuck in a tense debate over how to rescue a struggling candidacy. On some nights, it did not even bother with the daily tracking poll. Why waste money on more bad news? Mr. Obama’s attack on Mr. Romney’s role at Bain Capital, the private equity firm he founded, was in full swing, the Democratic convention had been an unequivocal boost for the president, and a videotape had surfaced that caught Mr. Romney at a private fund-raiser saying that 47 percent of the nation did not pay taxes, a line that reinforced Democrats’ efforts to portray him as an out-of-touch elitist.

“We had struggled pretty dramatically in September,” said Neil Newhouse, Mr. Romney’s pollster. “The 47 percent remark came out, and that was on top of the bounce that Obama got from his convention, so needless to say September was not our best month. It showed in our data. It was grim.”

There was, advisers decided, one last opportunity on the horizon: the presidential debate in Denver.




good section on how the two teams prepped/didn't prep for that first debate


<snip>


Sandy/Christie/that really really dumb ad about Jeep

Quote:


The White House announced the change of plans at 6:45 a.m. The president returned to the White House at 11:07 a.m. and went directly into the Situation Room, canceling his political events. The decision was costly to a campaign so dependent on organization: Mr. Obama used his rallies to collect supporters’ telephone numbers and e-mail addresses.

Once the storm struck, it was more of a problem for Mr. Romney. It put him in the position of struggling to explain the skepticism he had expressed during the Republican primaries about a federal role in disaster relief. Even worse, the hurricane pushed him off the stage at a crucial time.

In Boston, Mr. Romney’s aides broke out in a chorus of groans as they watched on television as Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey offered effusive praise of the president’s handling of the disaster. They viewed it as a self-serving act of disloyalty from a man whom they had expected to deploy that very weekend on Mr. Romney’s behalf. The praise of Mr. Obama from a Republican governor came at the same time Mr. Romney had been portraying Mr. Obama as partisan and polarizing.

The same week, the president’s campaign released an advertisement in which another Republican, Colin Powell, a former secretary of state, endorsed Mr. Obama. The ad, Mr. Obama’s aides said, produced a spike of support from independent voters. (Mr. Obama’s aides grabbed the clip from a television interview with Mr. Powell, deciding not to chance asking him for permission).

Mr. Romney was finding Ohio, a state central to his victory, a stubborn target, as Mr. Obama benefited from the auto industry rescue he championed and that Mr. Romney had opposed. The Romney campaign sought to undermine Mr. Obama with an advertisement misleadingly implying that Jeep was moving jobs from Ohio to China. By every measure, the ad backfired, drawing attacks by leaders of auto companies that employed many of the blue-collar voters that Mr. Romney was trying to reach.

The futility of that effort was apparent outside the sprawling Jeep assembly plant in Toledo, which had just had a $500 million renovation for production of a new line of vehicles, a project requiring 1,100 new workers.

“Everyone here knows someone who works at Jeep,” Jim Wessel, a supply representative making a sales visit. He said no one would believe the ad. Speaking of Mr. Obama’s efforts to rescue the auto industry, he said,“I can just tell you I’m glad he did it.”

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2012 12:14 pm
@ehBeth,
Romney was his own worst enemy; he was a flip-flopper personafied. Nobody really knew where he stood on any of the major issues facing republicans or democrats.

Not to belittle the efforts put on by the Obama campaign, because it became clear that conservatives were voting for Romney to get rid of Obama - and nothing else. They were a lost cause before they even began.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2012 12:22 pm
@ehBeth,
I think the other thing about the Jeep ad was that it really opened the door to the "Romney lies" idea. Romney had been changing positions and making up facts but the fact checkers weren't really getting any traction, but the Jeep line of attack was so thoroughly debunked that it might have made people wonder about other Romney lines.
ehBeth
 
  0  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2012 12:34 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
Romney had been changing positions and making up facts but the fact checkers weren't really getting any traction


this ties into an interesting section in the NYT article about the effect of Obama not prepping well for the first debate
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2012 07:51 pm
Quote:
November 14, 2012,
Romney Blames Loss on Obama ‘Gifts’
By ANDREW ROSENTHAL

Now we know that Mitt Romney did not "misspeak" when he whined to a big-money crowd that 47 percent of Americans mooch off government and "believe they are victims." He meant precisely what he said.

In a post-mortem call with his biggest donors on Wednesday, Mr. Romney said his team ran a "superb" campaign with "no drama" (well, yes, it was a pretty dull campaign) and that he lost because President Obama showered voters with "gifts." By voters he meant black, Hispanic, female and young voters. And by "gifts," he meant government money that is not spent on tax breaks and other incentives for big companies and rich people.

He said Mr. Obama motivated young voters by keeping student-loan interest rates low and by extending dependent health insurance coverage to age 26. According to the Times account of the call, Mr. Romney said Mr. Obama's health care plan also mobilized African-American and Hispanic voters. "You can imagine for somebody making $25,000 or $30,000 or $35,000 a year, being told you're now going to get free health care, particularly if you don't have it, getting free health care worth, what, $10,000 per family in perpetuity, I mean this is huge," Mr. Romney said.

He is right. It is huge. A hugely overdue and hugely necessary reform of a system that has left Americans at the bottom of the economic ladder with emergency rooms as their source of medical care. How crafty of Mr. Obama to pretend that he was governing when what he was really doing was handing out "gifts" in exchange for votes.

But that's not all. "Free contraceptives were very big with young college-aged women," Mr. Romney said, making it sound as though the president had distributed condoms with a t-shirt gun at a frat party (actually he mandated that non-religious institutions provide contraceptive coverage as part of their health care packages).

"The president's campaign," he said, "focused on giving targeted groups a big gift - so he made a big effort on small things. Those small things, by the way, add up to trillions of dollars."

Mr. Romney is so irrelevant now that's it tempting to let his comments gather dust on the remainder table of history. But I thought a few points were worth making. First, none of these examples qualify as actual gifts. Some, like keeping interest rates low on student debt, are smart investments to help young people succeed and become - yes, taxpayers. Others, like health care reform, require Americans to spend money (on insurance, or pay a penalty).

I guess Mr. Romney would not consider oil subsidies a gift. Or a tax system that allows him to pay a 14 percent tax rate. Or his proposal to build warships and warplanes and other fancy hardware that the military doesn't want or need.

The sad fact is that Mr. Romney is not out of touch with the Republicans' post-election ramblings. It seems like no one in his party has figured out that it wasn't "gifts" or bad luck that caused him to lose. It was his ideas.

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/14/romney-blames-loss-on-obama-gifts/?ref=opinion
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2012 08:25 pm
@firefly,
His ideas? He had none that anyone could hang their hat on. His flip-flopping about him wanting to help 100% of Americans was also big lie. He's a pathetic human being, and being rich has made him soulless.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2012 09:18 pm
Part of Romney's screwups was in handing over too many buzzwords. "Binders full of women" and "47%" have a nice ring to them, and are so easy to repeat.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2012 09:51 pm
@roger,
So is "gifts". Apparently, he's still going strong with his buzzwords and alienating large segments of the population.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Nov, 2012 10:52 pm
@JPB,
I didn't catch that one, but we were cleaning up with "You didn't build that." till Romeny trotted out his binders full of women.

Yeah, you can take a moral stand and be willing to alienate a few large groups. You can't do it to too many without a reason.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 07:35 am
Bobby Jindal is doing his darndest to be the anti-Romney:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/bobby-jindal-calls-romney-gift-comments-absolutely-wrong-014142107--election.html
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 07:41 am
@roger,
"Cleaning up" with whom? People who were going to vote for Romney anyway? It may have had an impact on getting out the conservative vote, but I don't see how it had any impact with swing voters. Conservatives don't need any help getting angry, they need help reaching out to those who aren't just like them. Buzzwords aren't the way to do that and telling supporters that Obama bought the elections with "gifts" to the 47%ers only goes to reinforce the narrative that his presentation to deep-pocketed donors was the only time we saw the true Mitt.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 08:47 am
@JPB,
On the conservative news media this AM (WHPT in HArrisburg), I heard the talk host slipping into the second phase of mourning "Anger and Bitterness". Its kinda funny how all these same arguments against everything except the obvious
ROMNEY WAS A BAD CANDIDATE.

Yesterday the racist crap was coming out with the "Obamas biggest support was from Urban voters"
He got half the voters plus 2.5 million more
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 08:52 am
Quote:
rickklein just askin', but if Obamacare was "gift" to minority voters, what was (Bush initiative for seniors) Medicare Part D? abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics…


What he said!
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 08:56 am
@farmerman,
Or say there was fraud because dozens of black voters showed up in Maine to vote.

GOP chief: Mystery black voters

0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 09:53 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
ROMNEY WAS A BAD CANDIDATE.


And despite that he got nearly half the votes. Sandy helped Mr Obama. Keeping the military sex imbroglio under wraps until the votes were in also. Did you notice the "I didn't see any evidence" at the press conference yesterday when Mr Obama was asked when he knew about the affair. Maybe he only heard. Maybe it was on Ignore. The Benghazi incident was also played down and The Pivot policy in the far-east never got a mention.

And winning the female vote using emotive platitudes was hardly fair. Would you like to discuss abortion in an adult manner? I don't suppose you do.

And Mr Obama's campaign was more cunning in "targeting". i.e, finding out more about you all. And he had the incumbent advantage.

And the House remained Republican.

I don't see what the Dems have to crow about. If they have a mandate it is a weak one.
0 Replies
 
 

 
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