Now what, USA?

@Setanta,

On a national scale, maybe, but he still yields a lot of power (imo) within the Republican party and he's got a bunch of money to throw at elections at the primary level.

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@JPB,

So what? If individual Representatives cave to his pressure, and it results in a fiscal disaster, those Representatives will pay for it 2014.

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@Setanta,

I went in search of Grover in the news since the election and found a bunch of stuff saying that he's full steam ahead on preventing any tax increases for anyone. Those who signed his pledge will have to decide for themselves if they want to face a primary challenge or not.

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@JPB,

JPB wrote:

No, but Grover Norquist can. He has vowed to finance a primary campaign against anyone who has signed his friggin' pledge and then votes for any kind of tax increase.

This divide-and-conquer tactic may work for Norquist as long as he has only a few defectors to punish and his punishments intimidate all other Congress Republicans into staying in line. But I don't see what Norquist could do against a unified Republican decision to defect. Trying to sack all Republican incumbents would spread his primary-campaign budget awfully thin.

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@Setanta,

Of the current Members of the House and Senate (total 435+50=485) 279 have signed the Norquist Tax Pledge.

That number may have shrunk in this last election, but still.... .

Joe(that's a lot of No's )Nation

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@Joe Nation,

I refer you to my remarks about their probable electoral success in 2014 if they let the bus go over the cliff. Also, see Thomas' remark just above yours. The Republicans do not have 50 senate seats, and they are effectively irrelevant in that house. Your math is off, too--there are 100 Senators, so the total is 535.

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@ronc0011,

Quote:

The government that Obama and the liberal democrats envision for us cannot afford a truly free exchange of ideas . Period. They must stop the internet. Their world cannot survive with free speech.

You're a f*ucking idiot. You know that right?

I'm sure I will be sorry for this reply.

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Nov. 1 at 4:50 a.m. ET

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@Joe Nation,

I think we'll find that the Speaker is willing to discuss additional revenue through tax reform wherein deductions are eliminated but rates are not raised. Whether or not he will be looking for rate reduction, will be seen.

Again, I don't see how Obama and the Democrats can force the House to do anything. Whatever it does, good, bad or indifferent, they will not be "letting it get away" with anything.

Both Obama and the Democrats have already loudly denounced the House Republicans as obstructionists. I suppose they can to so more loudly, but that's about it.

They didn't pay a price on Tuesday, and it's not a foregone conclusion they will in 2014. In any case that's two years away and doesn't serve well as a Big Stick today.

This is not to say that they shouldn't be willing to compromise if the other side is too, it's just to point out that the president can't get tougher with them than he already has.

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@JPB,

The Tea Party can't force the House Republicans to do anything in terms of this issue any more than the president and the Democrats can.

It (to the extent that it is an "it") can only express a position and then work, successfully or otherwise, to enforce it's wishes when the mid-term elections roll around.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

I think we'll find that the Speaker is willing to discuss additional revenue through tax reform wherein deductions are eliminated but rates are not raised. Whether or not he will be looking for rate reduction, will be seen.

Doubt he'll get that deal, as the baseline is for all the rates to rise. The chances for rate REDUCTION are zero.

Quote:

Again, I don't see how Obama and the Democrats can force the House to do anything. Whatever it does, good, bad or indifferent, they will not be "letting it get away" with anything.

That's the beauty of it - they don't have to force the House to do anything at all, as all the things that are about to happen are automatic, and the House can't stop them without working out a compromise. And when you negotiate from a position of weakness, you'd better be ready to actually compromise, and not just put forth Ryan's tax plan again.

Re: the Republican House not being punished, you know as well as anyone that this is due to an incredibly successful campaign of Gerrymandering on their part. But, it won't help in 2014. The same Democratic circles I run in that helped tremendously in Obama's victory, aren't going away or winding down. They've pivoted smoothly to kicking the **** out of the GOP House in 2014.

I hope the GOP House leadership corrects the errors of some of their ways before then, but I doubt they will, so don't be surprised when we come for you there and win as well.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Setanta,

He's, essentially, already done that.

He and the Democrats have been calling the House Republicans everything from obstructionist to un-patriotic (that always works so well), and despite whatever trend(s) were behind the re-lection of the president, they didn't cost the GOP the House.

Of course they could in 2014, but that's part of the calculus at work now, not how "tough" Obama gets with them.

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@Cycloptichorn,

After every election the winning side announces they will now win forever.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

After every election the winning side announces they will now win forever.

We can't and won't 'win forever.' But the short-range battles are being fought on our turf, and the GOP wants a different result than the automatic one, they'll have to make concessions to get it.

I will say that the GOP seems woefully behind in the application of modern social science to elections, and also seems to think that the 'old white man' voting block is going to reign supreme forever. But, maybe they'll wake up now; I've seen enough republican writers in the last two days grudgingly admit that they have a problem.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

Obviously they have a problem.

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Today the speaker of the house lays down the law that there will be no tax rate increases...and wallstreet logs another substantial loss. Things are NOT better than they were on Tuesday.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Today the speaker of the house lays doown the law that there will be no tax rate increased...and wallstreet logs another substantial loss. Things are NOT better than they were on Tuesday.

But, there WILL be a tax rate increase. The speaker can't stop it from happening, without convincing the Dem senate and Obama to stop it. Do you realize this?

Cycloptichorn

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@Setanta,

My math is off, sorry...I need a nap.

The GOP is not irrelevant in the US Senate. See Filibusters made in the past two years --241...

Joe(sorry for the sloppiness)Nation

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Today the speaker of the house lays down the law that there will be no tax rate increases...and wallstreet logs another substantial loss. Things are NOT better than they were on Tuesday.

Those with investments know the tax man is coming...

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Harry Reid: 'We Are Not Going To Mess With Social Security'

1 Reply

Now what, USA?

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