Two bad moments for Romney in second debate

How about some specifics Frank?

They deal with key constituencies in this election and are both clear moments with the ability to change minds or least get people who were tuning out to get to the polls (at this point motivating your base is more important than squabbling over the few truly undecided voters).

Your points about unemployment and the deficit could be counter-examples. But I think Obama won the deficit argument...

(i.e. "sketchy deal" and "math doesn't add up"), and the unemployment argument is old hat.

I don't think either of these had nearly the same impact.

No matter which of these guys wins...the economy will not get appreciably better during the next four years

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5138625)
Quote:

Quote:

No matter which of these guys wins...the economy will not get appreciably better during the next four years

Pardon me if I file this under "Bold statements he hopes noone remembers". Kinda like Hawkee who goes out on limbs predicting stuff and then has to eat half of it.

Ill believe PAul Krugman a bit bvecause he called the economy's turnaround based upon stimulus spending and a slight increase injobs followed by a slowly bouying building industry.

Hes got some chops, (and a Nobel prize)

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5139181)
Did you even watch the debate Frank? Because it sure seems like you aren't talking about the debate I saw last night.

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5138625)
I think you're wrong about Obama's chances in the election. And I think you're wrong about the economy having to crash before it gets better - I think there will be steady upswing in a second Obama term.

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5139726)
Frank,

I suppose your comments on the deficit part of the debate are what I have the hardest time accepting. It seems obvious to me that in this debate Obama handily won the argument on the deficit including his forceful rejection of tax cuts for the wealthy, and his debunking of Romney math.

You are, of course, welcome to your own opinion.

However, it is an error to choose balance over facts.

And of course, in a few days we are going to get poll results on women and Hispanic voters.

Based on my viewing of this debate, I predict that the gender gap will increase again and the percentage Hispanic voters favoring Obama will again increase.

My philosophy on taxes has been simple. And that is, I want to give middle-class families and folks who are striving to get into the middle-class some relief. Because they have been hit hard over the last decade. Over the last 15, over the last 20 years.

So four years ago I stood on a stage just like this one. Actually it was a town hall, and I said I would cut taxes for middle- class families, and that's what I've done, by $3,600.00. I said I would cut taxes for small businesses, who are the drivers and engines of growth. And we've cut them 18 times. And I want to continue those tax cuts for middle-class families, and for small business.

But what I've also said is, if we're serious about reducing the deficit, if this is genuinely a moral obligation to the next generation, then in addition to some tough spending cuts, we've also got to make sure that the wealthy do a little bit more.

So what I've said is, your first $250,000.00 worth of income, no change. And that means 98 percent of American families, 97 percent of small businesses, they will not see a tax increase. I'm ready to sign that bill right now. The only reason it's not happening is because Governor Romney's allies in Congress have held the 98 percent hostage because they want tax breaks for the top 2 percent.

But what I've also says is for above $250,000, we can go back to the tax rates we had when Bill Clinton was president. We created 23 million new jobs. That's part of what took us from deficits to surplus. It will be good for our economy and it will be good for job creation.

Now, Governor Romney has a different philosophy. He was on 60 Minutes just two weeks ago and he was asked: Is it fair for somebody like you, making $20 million a year, to pay a lower tax rate than a nurse or a bus driver, somebody making $50,000 year? And he said, "Yes, I think that's fair." Not only that, he said, "I think that's what grows the economy."

Well, I fundamentally disagree with that. I think what grows the economy is when you get that tax credit that we put in place for your kids going to college. I think that grows the economy. I think what grows the economy is when we make sure small businesses are getting a tax credit for hiring veterans who fought for our country. That grows our economy.

So we just have a different theory. And when Governor Romney stands here, after a year of campaigning, when during a Republican primary he stood on stage and said "I'm going to give tax cuts" -- he didn't say tax rate cuts, he said "tax cuts to everybody," including the top 1 percent, you should believe him because that's been his history.

And that's exactly the kind of top-down economics that is not going to work if we want a strong middle class and an economy that's striving for everybody.