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Please edit it if necessary

 
 
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2012 06:31 pm

One of the long-term plannings of our website is the setting-up/building of English-only forums, in which native English-speaking scholars, doctors and technicians will communicate with Chinese members directly in English language. That is why to keep layout design clean and correct is important.
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Type: Question • Score: 6 • Views: 1,964 • Replies: 23
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Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2012 11:48 pm
@oristarA,
Don't take this the wrong way Ori, but sometimes you can be bit wordy..Wink
If you are trying to advertise, tell people what they want to know in a friendly manner.
Try something like what I've written below.


Our long-term website plans are to have a clean design and layout, and to create an English forum, where English scholars, doctors and technicians can communicate with Chinese members directly.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Oct, 2012 05:06 am
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:

Don't take this the wrong way Ori, but sometimes you can be bit wordy..Wink
If you are trying to advertise, tell people what they want to know in a friendly manner.
Try something like what I've written below.


Our long-term website plans are to have a clean design and layout, and to create an English forum, where English scholars, doctors and technicians can communicate with Chinese members directly.


Thank you Ceili.

But it is different.

"An English forum" would be misunderstood as a forum about English language, while the original intention is to create a medical section/forum where the only language to be used is English (the current situation is that most of Chinese doctors or medical school students have to discuss in Chinese language because their English is not good enough to fully convey what they want to say; and of course the doctors from US or UK or Canada fail to join in because Chinese language is too hard for them).

Poor English skills have led to crappy layout design at present there.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Oct, 2012 10:17 am
@oristarA,
Who's your targeted market Ori? If it's English speaking doctors to a Chinese site, then your first attempt says waaaaay too much and is not really on target either.
Most english speakers on a Chinese medical forum would not think "English forum" would necessarily be a discussion on language.
In fact, if you had an "English" section, I'm sure most people would expect pages written in English.
I know you spend a lot of energy learning English, but most English speakers don't think all that much about grammar or spelling. When we see the word English or an American or British flag on a site, we ASSUME the page will be in English, not a debate on the finer points punctuation.
I think we're getting to the crux of the problem. Ori, very few english speakers would wade through your sentence, and if they did, most of them would be confused and instantly know it wasn't written by an english speaker.
When you write, you have to assume the people you are writing for are at least half as smart as you. You don't have to over explain everything.
I absolutely understand what you meant, I was cleaning it up so that an English speaker would read it. My sentence means the same thing as yours, I just dropped the 'Confucius say' part..


Quote:
One of the long-term plannings I'm not trying to be rude, but do you use a spell check? It should be plans, one-plan or goal. of our website is the setting-up/building every website is set up and built, no need to explain. of English-onlyConveys the site is for English Only, no Chinese... forums, in which native why is this important? they are many fine Italian or Russian native speakers, for example) that could outspeak the average native born English speaker. English-speaking scholars, doctors and technicians will communicate with Chinese members directly in English languageoverkill. You've already made this point.. That is whyConfucius say.. to keep awkwardlayout design clean and correctWhat does this mean? it's either completely superfluous, or an ambiguous threat that the participants must tow the line, is important.Of course it's important, you're doctors and technicians and what not. What else could it be?

MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Oct, 2012 10:22 am
"forum in English" or "an English-language forum", otherwise as Ceili phrased it.
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Oct, 2012 10:31 am
@Ceili,
Wow
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Oct, 2012 09:02 pm
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:

Who's your targeted market Ori? If it's English speaking doctors to a Chinese site, then your first attempt says waaaaay too much and is not really on target either.
Most english speakers on a Chinese medical forum would not think "English forum" would necessarily be a discussion on language.
In fact, if you had an "English" section, I'm sure most people would expect pages written in English.
I know you spend a lot of energy learning English, but most English speakers don't think all that much about grammar or spelling. When we see the word English or an American or British flag on a site, we ASSUME the page will be in English, not a debate on the finer points punctuation.
I think we're getting to the crux of the problem. Ori, very few english speakers would wade through your sentence, and if they did, most of them would be confused and instantly know it wasn't written by an english speaker.
When you write, you have to assume the people you are writing for are at least half as smart as you. You don't have to over explain everything.
I absolutely understand what you meant, I was cleaning it up so that an English speaker would read it. My sentence means the same thing as yours, I just dropped the 'Confucius say' part..


Quote:
One of the long-term plannings I'm not trying to be rude, but do you use a spell check? It should be plans, one-plan or goal. of our website is the setting-up/building every website is set up and built, no need to explain. of English-onlyConveys the site is for English Only, no Chinese... forums, in which native why is this important? they are many fine Italian or Russian native speakers, for example) that could outspeak the average native born English speaker. English-speaking scholars, doctors and technicians will communicate with Chinese members directly in English languageoverkill. You've already made this point.. That is whyConfucius say.. to keep awkwardlayout design clean and correctWhat does this mean? it's either completely superfluous, or an ambiguous threat that the participants must tow the line, is important.Of course it's important, you're doctors and technicians and what not. What else could it be?




See, as I reread your first post and found it excellent.

Based on your editing, I made a little bit of change:

Quote:
Our long-term website plans are to create an English forum with a clean design and layout, where English scholars, doctors and technicians can communicate with Chinese members directly.


Because the current forum has already a clean design and layout in Chinese language but not in English.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Oct, 2012 09:15 pm
"English scholars and doctors" sounds like you only want people from England participating, which is not, I gather, your intent". Same with "English forum". You would be better off using something like "a forum in English" or "an English-language forum" and talking about "English-speaking scholars...." to clarify. Otherwise, I, as a Yank, would misinterpret what you're suggesting.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2012 07:21 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

"English scholars and doctors" sounds like you only want people from England participating, which is not, I gather, your intent". Same with "English forum". You would be better off using something like "a forum in English" or "an English-language forum" and talking about "English-speaking scholars...." to clarify. Otherwise, I, as a Yank, would misinterpret what you're suggesting.


Thanks for reminding.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2012 09:16 am
@Ceili,
Quote:
Don't take this the wrong way Ori, but sometimes you can be bit wordy..


Perhaps Ori is following the English pattern where wordiness denotes politeness, Ceili.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2012 09:21 am
@Ceili,
Quote:
I'm not trying to be rude, but do you use a spell check? It should be plans, one-plan or goal.


One of the long term plannings

The A2K spell check doesn't note this as a spelling error, Ceili, and likely for very good reason - it can't tell whether that is a possible English collocation. It isn't, of course, as you have pointed out, but there's no reason, other than convention, that it couldn't be.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2012 09:27 am
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
"English scholars and doctors" sounds like you only want people from England participating, which is not, I gather, your intent".


where English scholars, doctors and technicians can communicate with Chinese members directly.

It's not "English scholars and doctors", as you have written, above, MJ.

It's

English scholars, doctors and ...

I'm sure that you are aware that commas can impart meaning to a sentence.

Quote:
Otherwise, I, as a Yank, would misinterpret what you're suggesting.


The Elements of Style does not deserve the enormous esteem in which it is held by American college graduates. Its advice ranges from limp platitudes to inconsistent nonsense. Its enormous influence has not improved American students' grasp of English grammar; it has significantly degraded it.

http://chronicle.com/article/50-Years-of-Stupid-Grammar/25497
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2012 09:37 am
@JTT,
Sometimes you take things a little too seriously. I realize that the Chinese are extremely polite, to their credit. It's an admirable trait. It is, however, unnecessary in this circumstance as I pointed out.

Funny, my spell check does pick this out as a speller error.. hmmm
If you think he should use plannings, by all means, tell him to use it. You should also explain that you are a champion of slang, and that by most convention, most people who speak english would not say, One of the long term plannings ever. One - plannings may have it's place, I'm not saying it doesn't, but if he does use it, most readers will instantly know he doesn't speak english well.

JTT
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2012 10:03 am
@Ceili,
Quote:
Sometimes you take things a little too seriously.


Language is a serious business, Ceili, as you pointed out. You wrote,

"but most English speakers don't think all that much about grammar or spelling."

Many [most??] are obsessive about spelling and many are also obsessive about the silly prescriptions they have learned but those aren't really about grammar. People just mistakenly think they are.

Quote:
I realize that the Chinese are extremely polite, to their credit. It's an admirable trait. It is, however, unnecessary in this circumstance as I pointed out.


And I agree with you. I was just pointing out a possible explanation. I failed to note that you gave good advice vis a vis the differing levels of politeness.

Quote:
Funny, my spell check does pick this out as a speller error.. hmmm
If you think he should use plannings, by all means, tell him to use it. You should also explain that you are a champion of slang, and that by most convention, most people who speak english would not say, One of the long term plannings ever.


You're being overly sensitive, Ceili. Read what I actually wrote before you presume to lecture.

It [plannings] isn't, of course, as you have pointed out, but there's no reason, other than convention, that it couldn't be.

The sentence above, shows that I agreed completely with you, save for my explanation that 'plannings' COULD be natural English. Not "is", mind you, but could be.

Quote:
One - plannings may have it's place, I'm not saying it doesn't, but if he does use it, most readers will instantly know he doesn't speak english well.


I would have to say that I'm 99.999% sure that 'plannings' currently has no place in English.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2012 10:09 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
I would have to say that I'm 99.999% sure that 'plannings' currently has no place in English.


0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2012 10:20 am
@Ceili,
Even less wordy

Our long-term website plans are to have a clean design and layout, and to create an English forum, where English scholars, doctors and technicians we can communicate directly with Chinese members directly.

Readily concede however you can attack on technicalities
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2012 10:31 am
@dalehileman,
Concede...attack?

I dunno 'bout you.. but I'm only here to help. There are a myriad of sentences that could be written, the more examples the merrier.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2012 10:35 am
@Ceili,
Quote:
the more examples the merrier.
Thanks Ceili, clearly you comprehend
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2012 10:49 am
JTT, you're a tiresome and irrelevant pedant, and as usual you totally miss the point. "English doctors...." had nothing to do with commas or their placement, or any alleged style book. It had to do with the fact that English doctors, or scholars, or whatever Oristar's original phrase was would commonly be taken to refer to doctors from England, not English-speaking doctors (tho of course English doctors would probably be English-speaking too). Rather it would appear that Oristar would be perfectly comfortable with Yank or Canadian or Ozian or NZ doctors too. His/her criterion focused on the language, not the nationality, but the phrasing didn't. You, as so often, are completely off the wall.
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2012 10:52 am
@JTT,
I'm no expert on the english language. Like most, I don't haunt english language sites bickering over rules 'o' language. But I do answer the odd question here.
I don't try to play professor because I'm not. I play it by ear.
While I agree with most of your, dare I say diatribes Wink, opinions on language, some could lead to confusion. I understood what you were saying regarding plannings, but when someone is learning english, do you really think it's important to throw a wrench into the explanation? I'm sure Ori has already figured out that for every rule there is an exception. However... every exception to the rule ain't necessarily right either.
I grew up with people from almost every place you could imagine. I'm very used to people learning to write and speak english. It's often helpful to understand where they are coming from and why they say things the way they do.
On many occasions, you've said - paraphrasing here- that nobody learns to speak in the classroom, that language isn't taught it's absorbed... or something like that.
While I agree with that wholeheartedly, I can't understand why you consistently offer up the obscure as examples. How does validating some obscure little cockney phrase, for example, help correct an obvious 'mistake' a newby makes.
My point here is that my goal is to help. Nothing more, nothing less.

JT, I'm as calm as a cucumber, so please don't think my sensitivities are being tweaked.
 

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