I wonder just how long until...

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Dateline Haiti:

The President of Haiti flees his country.

The United Nations Security Council unanimously votes to authorize a multinational force to assist in peacekeeping operations.

The United States (the nation able to deploy troops faster than any other nation) deploys Marines to the country until other countries can gather and deploy their own troops.

The United Nations want the U.S. troops there.

The members of the Security Council want the U.S. troops there.

The majority of the worlds nations want U.S. troops there.

The people of Haiti want U.S. troops there.

Even the rebels that started this uprising want the U.S. there to help keep order.

So I wonder just how long it's going to be before the United States is accused of being 'imperialist', 'colonialist', 'evil', or in some way responsible for what is going on there.

I just wonder how long?

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You are confusing Haiti with Iraq.

For all the reasons you state, this comparison is unjustified.

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I just wonder how long before fedral fesses up that discerning the real differences and the real similarities in multiple situations is like way hard.

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e_brown:

Nice catch.

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ebrown_p wrote:

You are confusing Haiti with Iraq. For all the reasons you state, this comparison is unjustified.

Yea, Fed. Your comparing apples to oranges.

Personally I support us going in there to help out. If Bush is trying to go for the "We care about the people of other countries" angle, then we have to go in.

Haiti doesn't really have anything we want or need, so I'd like to see the level of commitment that results from this, and how well we work with the world community on this issue.

This is a good chance for us to save a little face after the whole Iraq debacle. Here's to hoping for the best...

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I'm not comparing the situation in Haiti directly with Iraq, I am pointing out that in EVERY military situation that the United States has found itself in since Vietnam, there have always been a cadre of individuals who decry the U.S. as warmonging imperialists and will find a way to turn even the most humanitarian of intentions into some evil conspiracy to pillage the Third World.

That was the point I am and was trying to make.

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What point?

It seems you are trying to put all the people who disagree with you about Iraq into one group you can label and ignore. This is a cowardly technique in a debate since you don't have to challenge or defend your own beliefs.

But here it is very flawed.

Of the many of us who feel the war in Iraq was unjustified and morally wong

- Many supported the first US military action in Haiti.
- Many supported the US overthrow of the Taliban in Afganistan.
- Many supported the first Gulf war *because* of the coalition and limited mission.

I add my name to the list (I expect is quite large) list of people who support American intervention in Haiti, yet strongly oppose our actions in Iraq.

You have no valid point.

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Fedral wrote:

I am pointing out that in EVERY military situation that the United States has found itself in since Vietnam, there have always been a cadre of individuals who decry the U.S. as warmonging imperialists and will find a way to turn even the most humanitarian of intentions into some evil conspiracy to pillage the Third World.
Quote:

Well..."duh". Of course your going to find people who are against every military action of the U.S. I think I see where your going with this (unless thats the only point your trying to get across.

The same argument can be made in the inverse:
"In EVERY military situation that the United States has found itself in since Vietnam, there have always been a cadre of individuals who categorize the U.S. as a benevolent, well intentioned nation and will find a way to turn even the most blatantly political intentions into some wonderful attempt to benefit the third world"

See what I mean? The argument doesn't lead anywhere, no matter what side you take. Its more of a rounded, general gripe that says something an nothing at the same time.

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e-brown, what part of "I'm not comparing Haiti directly with Iraq did you NOT understand?

Or are you in the habit of just replying without reading the previous postings.

I was pointing out that in the MANY operations that the U.S. military has been involved in during and since Vietnam, there has been a constant parade of people yelling about imperialism and aggression to the Third World. (No matter what the mission.)

Please try to respond to what was posted, not your interpretation of some posting that was never there.

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Fedral wrote:

I'm not comparing the situation in Haiti directly with Iraq, I am pointing out that in EVERY military situation that the United States has found itself in since Vietnam, there have always been a cadre of individuals who decry the U.S. as warmonging imperialists and will find a way to turn even the most humanitarian of intentions into some evil conspiracy to pillage the Third World.

True, but it will be a small minority in these "humanitarian" (concern for regional stability is not "the most humanitarian") cases.

You seem to be making a point for the unreasonable element of criticism of the US. But you are also making a point about the projection of power and interference that is typical of us and how that is widely resented.

It's because of the many self-interested interventions and meddling that the more "humanitarian" ones are viewed with a jaundiced eye.

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Quote:

The United Nations want the U.S. troops there.

The members of the Security Council want the U.S. troops there.

The majority of the worlds nations want U.S. troops there.

It's only an aside and clarification:

The Security Council as well as (nearly) every independent country are part of and forming the United Nations.

And the first troops there were French, followed up by Canadians.

Remembering that in the 2000 presidential election campaign, then-Republican candidate George W. Bush criticized his predecessor, President Bill Clinton, for dispatching U.S. troops all over the world, and especially to Haiti, to take part in "nation-building" ... ...

However, Secretary of State Colin Powell said the deployment would be "in the hundreds" and certainly nowhere near the 20,000 troops the U.S. dispatched to Haiti in the 1990s. :wink:

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Haiti is a malignant creation of French colonialism. It is fitting that they be allowed to clean up their mess - for once.

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georgeob1 wrote:

Haiti is a malignant creation of French colonialism. It is fitting that they be allowed to clean up their mess - for once.

Some dates from Hiati's history:

1697 - Spain cedes western part of Hispaniola to France, and this becomes Haiti, or Land of Mountains

1804 - Haiti becomes independent

1915 - US invades Haiti following black-mulatto friction, which it thought endangered its property and investments in the country.

1934 - US withdraws troops from Haiti, but maintains fiscal control until 1947.

1991 - Aristide ousted in a coup led by Brigadier-General Raoul Cedras, triggering sanctions by the US and the Organisation of American States

1993 - UN imposes sanctions after the Haitian military regime rejected an accord facilitating Aristide's return.

1994 - Haitian military regime relinquishes power in the face of an imminent US invasion; US forces land in Haiti peacefully to oversee a transition to civilian government; Aristide returns.

:wink:

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Walter,

I agree that it was all for nothing. We have dealt effectively with several short-term crises, but have not solved the underlying problem. Let the French fix it.

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AND THE WINNER IS....

Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:42 am

Umbagog wrote:

Also, Rome was universally hated and despised for the obvious reasons. Haiti should at least put a bug in your ear that Bush might be empire building like any good emperor would. The more people you mow over, the more the hatred for you spreads far beyond your new manicured "lawn".

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I wonder just how long until...

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