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Sumac, I'm glad I'm not the only one with these conflicts!

On a lighter note. I'm not quite living in the real "Bible Belt" now that I have moved from SC to NC. But it is really more a matter of degree. Here, Baptist churches still predominate, and the first thing people want to know about you is what church you go to. Your social acceptance and identity is fixed in large measure by that.

About a month or so ago I had a visit from a middle aged white couple in a van (what else?). They introduced themselves and identified themselves as affiliated with some kind of bible group. I immediately stopped listening and held up my hand, palm out, and said: "You can stop right there, as I am a Druid." The woman laughed, and the man looked like he clearly had no understanding or knowledge of what I said. LOL.

Sumac, Wilso -- I sooo know what you both mean. But I have given this some thought and I've come to the conclusion that, for me, the problem was really a semantic one. I mean, I DO believe there is some higher power operating in the universe. You don't have to call it 'God' or 'god.' If you're a Star Wars fan and wish to be fanciful, you can call it 'the Force.' I certainly don't think that my own feeble powers are all that outstanding. There IS something higher and more powerful than I. When I was boozing it up, liquor was certainly a power higher than any power I possessed. Perhaps you want to call it a 'first principle,' a 'cosmic force'. whatever. The point is to simply recognize that spmething more powerful than your own selfish desires can be made to work in your favor. Many people have a problem with 'God' because their image of God is whatever mythology they were taught as kids in Sunday school.

I don't know what, precisely, my higher power is. And I don't need to know. It's enough to know that a power more potent than myself is helping me in my recovery. It might be simply the group conciousness. It might be something more mystic than that. Or not. What you call is just words. But the power itself is real.

After a while I began to call that power God. I don't necessarily mean the God of Abraham or Jupiter Pluvius or Jesus of the Crucifixion. Not at all. These are just words. It's only that it's so much easier to say 'God' than it is to say 'Higher Power' all the time.

I sincerely hope that my experience at least gives you some fuel for thought, Wilso.

You both have!

I think the most important part is that it is a "God of my own understanding". With this, I am deeply indebted to this program; because, I have had a "God of my own understanding" for a very long time. Now this concept is justified.

The thing that the program taught me was the ability to turn things over to my "God" and to talk to my "God". This was such an important gift, it is a power that is so easy to achieve and keep - if I just

Let Go and Let God.

This is a spiritual, not a religious program. This means, to me, I have a relationship directly with God without any intervening agents. This I can handle.

For those that go through a religion, no problem, that is the "God of your own understanding". If it works, keep working it!

I am envious of all of you who have reached an accommodation in your mind to the higher power issue. I have not.

That does not mean that I do not believe that there are many, many things more powerful than myself. It is just that I have no faith that these powers have any interest in, or knowledge of me, at all.

It is your higher power sumac, kinda personal if you will. It/he/she/they have interest in you above all else

Sumac, you don't have to believe that a higher power has a special interest in you in the sense of an interpersonal relationship with an anthropomorphic god. What I came to realize is that everything -- literally everything -- in this universe is interrelated. The flutter of a butterfly's wings in the Amazon rainforest eventually causes a tornado in Texas. If there are powers beyond my understanding, then those powers have a direct relationship to me in the same way that the force of gravity has a relationship to me, that the moon's phases cause tides.

I can relate to both of those viewpoints. Thanks.

The best part is that they are both so relational

Pun intended? LOL

bill w of a.a.
did anyone ever hear of bill wilson have an extra marital affair?

Welcome to A2K, toobad68!

I'm sure, you can find online - and certainly in the printed biographies of Bill W - a lot, which will answer your question.

I'm sure, as well, that you can discuss with a couple of recovered alcoholics (e.g. with me), about what we did during the time of our abuse.

Personally, however, I would like to get to know a little bit more about the "why" of question.
(Might be, others don't bother :wink: )

Welcome here again, and have a look around the other sites of A2K as well!

Hoping, you are all doing fine ..... and sober.

This link to Sotheby's might be of some interest :wink:

I did many things during my addictions - cunning, baffling and powerful - that I don't do today.


THE PROMISES

If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through.

We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness.

We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it.

We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace.

No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others.

That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear.

We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows.

Self-seeking will slip away.

Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change.

Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us.

We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us.

We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.

That is so true, Bill. There's just one thing one has to bear in mind -- the Promises come in the middle of the 9th Step. One has to take the steps for the promises to come true.

Nice to see you here .... again, Bill, Andrew ...

And that feeling is quite mutual, Walter. Wie gehts?