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Niall Ferguson: Obama’s Gotta Go

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2012 02:53 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:

No, I don't believe Obama is a failure ONLY because he has failed to provide the private sector jobs he promised.


Specifically, did he promise to have fully replaced all jobs that were lost a year before he was put into the leadership role? If not, I have no idea how you are making this claim.

Quote:
It goes far deeper than that. Neither I, nor Ferguson have used that as a sole reason so I wonder why you think that. It's a culmination of ALL his failures that make the Obama presidency a failure. If Obama couldn't keep his promises, he shouldn't have made them.


Many of the campaign promises Obama made occurred prior to the market's meltdown in October of 2008. Nobody - nobody - knew how bad the economy was going to get. It's no surprise at all that the landscape had significantly shifted by the time he took office, and he was unable to go through with many of the plans he had initially talked about.

Quote:
Keep blaming everyone but Obama though. Obviously everything the executive branch does is being held up by those darned republicans! That only gets you so far cyc. Eventually, as they say, the buck stops at the Presidents desk.


The buck ALWAYS stops at the president's desk. That's a big difference between you and I, McG - I've always believed this. Obama said long ago that he owns the economy and you can judge him based upon it. He made several errors in his first year of office, the biggest of which being his hiring of Timothy Geithner and Summers as his economic policy team, closely followed by his decision to re-nominate Bernake. He should be held responsible for the fact that he - on his team's advice - took actions to shore up the financial sector and the wealthy, at the expense of everyone else.

However, that doesn't mean that we should ignore reality, and the role that the other side played in shaping our current situation. ALL presidents in the past, when responding to recessions, have increased government spending to respond to them. The GOP has done its best to keep Obama from doing this, and you can see the results today.

Quote:
I wonder if YOU read the article, or just skimmed through the rebuttals. Did you get that version of Newsweek and read through it thoroughly?


I read the entire article and reams of analysis before any discussion here began. It was widely discussed on the left side of the fence, for an entire week.

You don't have to read things instantly, you should simply have read them and understand the strengths and weaknesses of a piece before attempting to use it to back up a point you are making.

Quote:
Sounds to me like you are backing out of the conversation here. If you are, just go ahead and plainly say so instead of trying to make out to be some kind of sophisticate who can't be bothered by such mendacity.


The mendacity I refer to is in the quality of the criticisms that you and Ferguson are leveling against Obama. You have created an impossible demand upon the man and then damned him for not living up to that impossibility. You ignore or wave away all factors that disprove or challenge your argument.

If you don't think that's true, maybe you can address the question of how Obama was supposed take action, that would lead the economy to add enough jobs on a monthly basis to make up for all the lost jobs? What would you suggested he would have done differently, that would have produced results never before seen in American history? I have yet to hear you or anyone else address this question in any depth.

Cycloptichorn
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2012 02:58 pm
@McGentrix,
The last time I checked Obama wasn't inaugurated in 01/08. To use his claims in Jan of 09 to benchmark against Jan of 08 is hardly accurate. One should compare them to the time he said them.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2012 05:05 pm
@MMarciano,
Thanks for sharing. If you don't care, why post?
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2012 07:09 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Did he specifically promise to have fully replaced all jobs that were lost a year before he was put into the leadership role? Laughing

Your kidding right? You really want to stick to that high a standard? You would have NEVER given Bush that kind of leniency. EVER.

So, the standard for campaign promises are now that future Presidents are only responsible for them if everything goes perfectly. I'll keep that in mind when you guys start bitching and moaning about Romney's presidency.

How is that different between us? Have I given you the impression that the buck doesn't stop there? I am glad to see you admit it though. Maybe now you can stop always blaming the GOP for everything.

As far as reading the article goes, I have never posted an article I haven't read and understood. This seems to be a thing for you. I am sure the left sites were ablaze with anything that shows any sort of critical aspersion towards Obama. I try to keep out of that loop so you will just have to forgive me for not having read it earlier in the week.

What Ferguson did was hardly a scratch compared to what the liberals did to Bush and his administration (most of which continues today). What you have done here is exactly what Ferguson has said.
Quote:
My critics have three things in common. First, they wholly fail to respond to the central arguments of the piece. Second, they claim to be engaged in “fact checking,” whereas in nearly all cases they are merely offering alternative (often silly or skewed) interpretations of the facts. Third, they adopt a tone of outrage that would be appropriate only if I had argued that, say, women’s bodies can somehow prevent pregnancies in case of “legitimate rape.”


Finally, if I knew what Obama should do to fix things I would certainly not be sitting at home posting on A2K. I'd be enjoying my wealth in Bermuda.

I think you want to be critical of Ferguson because he dared contradict the popular meme that Obama can do no wrong and anyone who dares criticize him must be making impossible demands upon him. It's crazy to think how you behaved during the Bush admin to see you now defending Obama so stridently.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Aug, 2012 04:40 am
@McGentrix,
Quote:
I think you want to be critical of Ferguson because he dared contradict the popular meme that Obama can do no wrong...


McG...except for conservatives like you using this line as part of an effort to discredit Barack Obama...

...I have never really seen this line used.

I am an admirer of Obama...and I have never used it. I have read commentary from many, many Obama admirers and I have never hear any of them use it.

I would bet that the only people who use it are extreme conservatives.

So why do you conservatives make it so popular...and then rail against it?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Sat 25 Aug, 2012 04:46 am
Niall Ferguson . . . Ah-hahahahahahahahahahahahaha . . .

You crack me up, McG . . . have you decided to make a career of comedy?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Aug, 2012 05:01 am
An excellent piece by Matthew O'Brien at the Atlantic can be found here.. "The Age of Niallism: Ferguson and the Post-Fact World," Bluster cannot make untruths true.

Paul Krugman (winner of a Nobel Memorial Prize for Economics) stated that Ferguson is a "poseur" who "hasn't bothered to understand the basics, relying on snide comments and surface cleverness to convey the impression of wisdom. It's all style, no comprehension of substance."

The guy is a hack who is not respected in his own academic field, never mind economics.
0 Replies
 
 

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