Can an intellectual still believe absurd things?

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

I object to the inferential claim that it is inevitable.

Setanta wrote:

Certainly some people will think they see patterns were none exist, or erroneously associate data or ideas.

lol

Setanta wrote:

That doesn't mean that all pattern recognition and associative thinking will always lead to irrationality. I object to the conclusions drawn.

Nobody has made that claim. That's your strawman right there.

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@DrewDad,

You're kind of slow on the uptake, aren't you? Saying that we are hard-wired to be irrational is an inferential claim that our mental processes will inevitably make us irrational. I don't know why i'm wasting my time one you. You said that you weren't arguing with me, and that's all you done, and you don't do it very well, either.

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Threadevolution

Cycloptichorn

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@DrewDad,

Here is the post to which i objected. You yourself remark at the outset that the human brain is designed to be irrational. Even your source doestn't make that claim.

DrewDad wrote:

The human brain is basically designed to be irrational.

The Evolution Of Superstitious And Superstition-Like Behaviour

Quote:
Superstitions often seem irrational, even stupid, but they a widespread and pervasive part of human life. Why is this?

Using a mathematical model, we investigated whether superstitious behaviours are a predicted product of evolution by natural selection.

The results are clear: superstitions are a part of adaptive behaviour in all organisms as they attempt to make sense of an uncertain world. Humans are heavily affected by culture as well as evolution.

Nevertheless, our analysis suggests that cultural effects are shaped by an evolved tendency to readily associate events, so readily that individuals often make superstitious mistakes

(emphasis added)

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@Setanta,

Have a good day, Set.

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

Of course I believe in them! That's because I pretend to be an intellectual on A2K, and intellectuals love absurd-sounding statements,

Are absurd-sounding statements the same thing as absurd statements? Because if they're not, you're switching terms in mid-stream. I'm not interested in absurd-sounding statements, which are as to absurd statements as the sound of a gunshot is to a gunshot.

Thomas wrote:

So what if my views are insulting? They are true: If I was living around the time when the first astronomer suggested that the sun is not rotating around the Earth, I myself would have found his views ridiculous, impossible to take seriously, in a word, absurd. They would have flown in the face of what I saw every day with my own eyes. Granted, it may be a little different in this age of satellite images.

You're too modest -- it's a lot different in this age of satellite images. Indeed, to suggest that we are limited to the same means of verification that were available in the middle ages is disingenuous, at best. If someone today were to announce a Copernican-type revolution in astronomy or astrophysics, his inquisitors would be dismissed if they simply rejected the innovation on the grounds that it contravened holy scripture. We are not savages living in darkness who think that a giant dragon swallows the sun every night and regurgitates it every morning, and if someone were to advance that belief today, our first response would not be "Jesus said otherwise," but rather "where's this dragon?"

Thomas wrote:

joefromchicago wrote:
Who's talking about the average citizen? I'm talking about people who are purportedly intellectuals.

So am I.

No, you're not. You even admit that you're not.

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@DrewDad,

I will, knowing that you can't defend your postion, and can't admit it.

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@Setanta,

If it irrationally makes you happier to believe you've won something... then knock yourself out.

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@DrewDad,

Can't let it go, can you? It's not a matter of winning or losing, it's a matter of defending myself against your irrational arguments.

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@Setanta,

Since I didn't attack you, it would seem pretty irrational to defend yourself.

You are the king of "must have the last word," so I find it amusing that you complain of someone not being able to let it go.

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@joefromchicago,

Be that as it may, my answer to your question, "can an intellectual still believe absurd things?", is "yes". I'm glad we talked about it.

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@DrewDad,

Here you are employing another straw man. I didn't say that you attacked me, but you did make the irrational and erroneous claim that i was using a straw man--you attacked my argument. I wasn't using a straw man, and i've quoted your post to demonstrate it. As i've said, you aren't very good at this.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

it's a matter of defending myself against your irrational arguments.

Pardon me, then. My irrational arguments attacked you.

Irritable little critters.

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I so enjoy these threads

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/kmh/lowres/kmhn57l.jpg

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@ehBeth,

I wonder which one of the four will get the last word?

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@joefromchicago,

joefromchicago wrote:

Can an intellectual still believe absurd things?

I, on the other hand, wonder if one can truly exhibit intellectual curiosity without ever holding an absurd belief.

Quote:

Is there a point at which we can segregate one's intelligently held beliefs from those that are completely absurd, such that we can excuse the latter as mere aberrations? Or is there some level beyond which we must conclude that the absurd beliefs negate the sound ones?

Yes. Six such absurd beliefs before breakfast is the litmus test. Beyond that madness lies.

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@joefromchicago,

The beliefs of the other side are often aberrant.

"Good, my lord, enter here."

http://www.bartleby.com/70/4334.html

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@Robert Gentel,

Robert Gentel wrote:

I, on the other hand, wonder if one can truly exhibit intellectual curiosity without ever holding an absurd belief.

That depends on what you consider "absurd."

Let's say there are two people, A and B. A believes that gravity is the result of particles, called "gravitons," acting on bodies. A bases her belief on scientific tests and educated inferences. Although A cannot prove that gravitons exist, she is reasonably confident, based upon all she knows about quantum physics (of which she is an expert), that gravitons will be discovered as soon as instruments are developed that can measure such things.

B, on the other hand, also believes that gravity is the result of particles acting on bodies. B, however, bases that belief on a revelation he had from L. Ron Hubbard, who appeared to him in a dream.

Now, which of these beliefs is absurd? If you say that both are, then you have to explain why a scientific postulate shares the same level of believability as a mystic revelation. I'm certainly not prepared to go that far.

Rather, I view only B's belief as absurd -- and it is absurd even though B might be right that gravity is a particle. That's because, even if it is ultimately determined that gravity is a particle, B's belief is still based on something that is completely unreliable, and he would only be right as a result of pure happenstance. In contrast, A's belief is not absurd, even though it might be wrong. That's because it is based on solid evidence and reasoning.

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I am more convinced than ever that I was correct when I earlier suggested that many people would define "intelligently held beliefs" to be "beliefs" with which they are in accord...and "absurd" ones to be those with which they are in opposition.

However I have been persuaded that some people will set up their rationalizations for what they claim to be "intelligently held" or "absurd" in a way that makes it look as though they are being more reasonable.

I also will acknowledge that some people are very good at doing that.

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@Frank Apisa,

Yes, and some people are jackasses who don't have the balls to come out and say what they really mean.

I also will acknowledge that some people are very good at doing that.

1 Reply

Can an intellectual still believe absurd things?

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