18
   

They’re 18 for Gods sake

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2012 02:14 pm
@Frank Apisa,
And posts by BillRM.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2012 02:17 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
So the supervisor or the owner of the store should not be allow to form a sexual relationship with a clerk at that store by law?


that's up to the individual jurisdiction as far as I am concerned

I know that there are still a number of employment contracts that make it clear what will happen as a result of power-differential relationships - the end of the employment relationship.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2012 02:20 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
It is not anywhere near as black and white as some of you seem to think it is.


The law is black and white on this.

Spendy. Spendy has never been a female teacher. MsOlga has.

It does seem that old men have some kind of romantic view of this sort of thing. I could guess why - as you have guessed about the young men's current behaviours.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2012 02:23 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

And posts by BillRM.


another old man. Not necessarily old in years, but definitely in attitude.

It would be great if you and Spendy and BillRM had sons to discuss this with - or young male work colleagues - they definitely gave me something to think about on this subject and it wasn't the happy happy bang bang story that you seem to think it might/should be.
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2012 02:28 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
It does seem that old men have some kind of romantic view of this sort of thing. I could guess why - as you have guessed about the young men's current behaviours.


There is nothing even close to "romantic" about my view of this thing...and I seriously doubt any of the other "old men" discussing it here feel there is either.

That comment was inappropriate...and not like you at all. Beneath the Beth I know.

As for my guesses about the young men's behavior, Beth, that they will brag about the incident...and probably already have...

...well, I am willing to hear you guess the other way.

I would, at that point, remind you that I was once a young man and I probably know better than you what young men brag about.

Which brings me to the line from Tea and Sympathy:

Years from now when you talk about this - and you will - be kind.
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2012 02:29 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
It would be great if you and Spendy and BillRM had sons to discuss this with - or young male work colleagues - they definitely gave me something to think about on this subject and it wasn't the happy happy bang bang story that you seem to think it might/should be.


You are in delusion here, Beth.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2012 02:30 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
There is nothing even close to "romantic" about my view of this thing...and I seriously doubt any of the other "old men" discussing it here feel there is either.
At 81 I submit, depends on how you define romance
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2012 02:30 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Bloody hell. What he risked there doesn't bear thinking about.


But it doesn't make his son either wise or virtuous. If it did, then by that reasoning, I can adduce my dad in support, because he flew Halifaxes and Lancasters in Bomber Command from 1942 to the end of the war.


BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2012 02:32 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
As for my guesses about the young men's behavior, Beth, that they will brag about the incident...and probably already have...


http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/ex-teacher-gets-5ex-teacher-gets-5-1501495.html

Three former students who testified Thursday said that they did not consider themselves victims and did not want to see their former English teacher prosecuted. The three were football and track athletes.

0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  2  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2012 02:37 pm
@spendius,
I'm not outraged- I'm just saying that I understand why there needs to be some censure of this behavior - because she IS a teacher in that school and community.

I mean seriously...are you and Frank trying to say that you think she will retain any of her ability to command respect and act as a role model and mentor to young people when the football team is talking about her prowess as a slag, easy lay, (or the village bike - as I've heard you describe women who sleep around?)

How is she supposed to stand in front of a class and teach her subject, whatever it is, when there are videos and stills of her engaged in sex acts circulating the school?
You guys think you know what young men think and feel because you were once young men, but I guarantee you you don't know how fast gossip and innuendo can circulate a highschool and make the object of it the subject of ridicule and derision which makes it impossible for that person to control a classroom and do their job.

And you know, I think people need to take responsibility for their actions, so in terms of comparing this to fifty million abortions, I can only say that the people who have had abortions are answerable to their own consciences because what they've done has only affected their lives and the lives of their own potential child while this teacher is affecting the lives of other peoples' children and thus, other people.
And yes, yes, yes- I know these young men were eighteen and not what you'd call 'children' but do you think she did that on purpose? Do you think she asked them their birthdate before she engaged? I don't know - maybe she WAS that calculating - or just maybe it was coincidence that she didn't fancy boys a little younger and/or the stars were aligned in her favor on that score, because yes - she'd have been in a hell of alot more hot water if she'd bedded someone even a little bit younger.

And yes, maybe these young men sniffed out her vulnerability on this score, but fact remains- she is the adult and in a position of authority and trust. The onus was on her to exercise better judgment.

That's it - plain and simple. We can't have teachers in schools viewing and using their students as sex partners.
Or do you think we can and should?
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2012 02:38 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
that's up to the individual jurisdiction as far as I am concerned


No repeat no it is not up to the individual jurisdiction as we have a constitution and as adults we have a right a constitutional right to picked our sexual partners from other adults.

I assume you wish for the anti-gay sex laws and the anti mixed race laws to be once more up to the individual jurisdictions also?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2012 02:40 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
will happen as a result of power-differential relationships - the end of the employment relationship
.

No problem with her being fired or even losing her teaching license but then we are not talking about criminal laws here.
Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2012 02:44 pm
@BillRM,
so, billy...

you are ok with police officers picking their sex partners from folks they write traffic tickets to?

as long as they are 18...
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2012 02:46 pm
@aidan,
Quote:
I'm not outraged- I'm just saying that I understand why there needs to be some censure of this behavior - because she IS a teacher in that school and community
.


Fired her and or take away her teacher license but criminal law and punishments have no place in punishing consensus sexual relationship between adults.



aidan
 
  3  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2012 02:50 pm
@BillRM,
Yes - for the fourth time now - okay.

But you seem to be saying that you don't think she did anything wrong. If she didn't do anything wrong, why do you think she should be fired?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2012 02:52 pm
@Rockhead,
Quote:
you are ok with police officers picking their sex partners from folks they write traffic tickets to?

as long as they are 18...


Well if they teared up the ticket for sex or imply they would that is one thing if after the court case the police officer and the driver hook up so what?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2012 02:53 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Quote:
Re: aidan (Post 5083020)
Quote:
I'm not outraged- I'm just saying that I understand why there needs to be some censure of this behavior - because she IS a teacher in that school and community
.



Fired her and or take away her teacher license but criminal law and punishments have no place in punishing consensus sexual relationship between adults.


AMEN!

That has been conceded several times by almost everyone here...but Aidan keeps going back to it.

None of us are arguing that she should be chosen Teacher of the Year. All of us are conceding that firing her is justified. All of us are conceding that revoking her teacher's license may be very appropriate.

But putting her in prison for this is excessive...and the people saying that she is getting off light are, in my opinion, closer to acting demented than she or the athletes.

And anyone who thinks that she and the young men did not enjoy the sexual activity is living in a dream world.

Yes...she broke the law. And the consequences are prison. But that does not mean that reasonable people cannot be troubled by such a consequense!!!
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2012 02:56 pm
@aidan,
One of us seems to be missing something, aidan. I'm pretty sure you, Frank, and myself have been in close agreement from the beginning.
aidan
 
  3  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2012 02:58 pm
@Frank Apisa,
What troubled me is your focus on their respective orgasms and the boys having bragging rights in this whole situation.

Your attitude seemed a little cavalier about the deeper implications for both the teacher, the boys and the school and community.

Pardon me if I'm mistaken, but that's how I read what you've written.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  4  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2012 02:59 pm
@roger,
I am NOT in agreement with Frank that what this woman did is no big deal and a cause for orgasmic celebration on the parts of the participants.
 

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