Luxin
 
Reply Thu 24 Oct, 2019 11:01 am
October 24, 2019

"Sexual freedom" is a misnomer regarding an imaginary human condition that, being imaginary, does not exist in any human's real life. Those who believe "sexual freedom" has real existence are deluded and brainwashed by the misconception of its false "reality", a misconception promoted by immoral and manipulative sexual predators and their victims who feel comfortable with the evil term's connotations of "normalcy" and "unlimited fun" suggested by the word "freedom".

"Sexual freedom" is a euphemism for the real human condition of sexual degeneracy.

"Sexual degeneracy" is a human condition suffered by the loveless and obsessively sensual spiritually dead (a.k.a 'the dead') who feel that physical sex or sexuality and the pleasures they afford in all their variations are ends in themselves which they may have simply by getting "hands on" with a "person" they are attracted to, regardless of the absence of any love or lifetime commitment for the person, which is always present in a true lover, but lacking in the predator (false or dead lover), for which reason the person is their victim.

"Freedom" is an imaginary human state or illusion, because all things are determined by a fixed cause or thought which produces a fixed effect, feeling or interaction.

The term "freedom" -- which implies some kind of choice -- is inapplicable to the sexual realm, all things sexual being compelled by natural desire. Just as in the lower creatures, all human sexual attraction and sexual activity is compelled by Nature/God. No one is free to choose one's thoughts, feelings, natural reactions or behaviour -- all these are compelled. Related to this is that no moral or "good" person can choose to be an immoral, deviate or degenerate "bad" person, and vice versa.

"Bad" people use the euphemism "sexual freedom" for the actual degenerate state in order to be more readily accepted by the unwary who are therefore more easily manipulated and used for the loveless pleasure of the "bad" predator.

A "good" person never gets "HANDS ON" with someone until they at least believe they truly love the person and want to be committed to them for life.

The difference between a "good" person or a primarily spiritual lover and a "bad" person or primarily physical and loveless predator is that:

1) the "good" or mostly "HANDS OFF" person is very conscious that their partner is first and foremost a spiritual or sacred being with whom the "HANDS ON" phase (even one little touch, ANYWHERE!) may or may not ever happen; and

2) the "bad" person or loveless predator -- meaning perhaps nine out of ten people in this fucked up world -- sees others as objects to be collected, brainwashed and jealously guarded, and who is compelled to get to the "HANDS ON" phase AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, if not right away.

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maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 24 Oct, 2019 11:22 am
@Luxin,
I am a sexual degenerate, and I am proud of it. Sex should be degenerate (or you aren't doing it correctly).

I don't have any need for euphemisms.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Oct, 2019 12:34 pm
What one person refers to as being degenerate; is, what another might refer to as divine pleasure.

If nobody is being hurt by it (unless the participant/s so desire), then there's nothing wrong with it or in any way degeneracy.
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 24 Oct, 2019 02:42 pm
@Luxin,
One of the most fundamental aspects of human nature is the need to satisfy the sexual urge. It is an undeniable part of the human condition and has both constructive as well as destructive potential. Over the course of history, different philosophies and religions have strived to ensure that the sexual urge is satisfied in a manner that is healthy for both the individual and the society. In the last few decades, however, notions of sexual morality and the boundaries of human sexuality have been besieged by a downward spiral of unfettered individual freedom, leading to cultural degeneration and sexual anarchy.

A universally accepted outlet for sexual desire is the institution of marriage. It not only allows the husband and wife to satisfy each other’s sexual drives without promiscuity, it also provides a foundational family unit for raising children and perpetuating the human race. In that sense, it balances the pleasure one draws from sexual intercourse with the responsibilities that ensue from initiating such a relationship.

On the other hand, pre-marital and extra-marital sex, pornography, prostitution, pedophilia and all other avenues of sexual expression are considered deviations by most cultures and religious teachings, including Islam. Such sexual freedom without regulations has a profoundly adverse and disruptive impact on society.

Islam provides a divine code for protection of the society as well as the individual from acts of sexual deviation. Through its prohibitions, rulings and recommendations, the sacred union of marriage is further protected, and its importance is emphasized as the essential legal unit which leads to healthy families, communities and nations.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Oct, 2019 04:18 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
I see zero evidence that families in sexually repressive cultures fare any better than us sexual degenerates. Once religious get the power to regulate sex, you get young girls being killed, people being outcast. There is prostitution in the most regressive religion regimes.

Compare the "sexual degeneracy" of the United States with the sexual repression of Iran. I would raise my family in the United States any day.

Talk to people who have escaped from sexually repressive cultures.... they aren't generally eager to return.


maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Oct, 2019 04:27 pm
@Sturgis,
Aren't "divine pleasure" and degeneracy closely related? For me they are at least.

Anyone who has been married for more than 3 years who says their spouse brings them "divine pleasure" is either lying or deceiving themselves. If marriage was that pleasurable there would be no need for adultery.

0 Replies
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Oct, 2019 04:52 pm
@maxdancona,
You should know that most Muslim countries are family oriented while USA and West in mostly focused on individualism which can only result in dysfunctional families with only few exceptions. Below are some statistics related to divorce and single parents. Search at your own and see if your claim is in fact true?

Divorce rate in USA is 53% in 2019.

I did not find any Muslim country in this list. See links below

https://divorcescience.org/for-students/world-divorce-statistics-comparisons-among-countries/

https://www.trendrr.net/8004/countries-with-highest-divorce-rate-world-famous-lowest-india-japan/

Some statistics about single parents
Again something overwhelmingly found in Western countries, link below:
https://spacedoutscientist.com/2017/07/18/single-parents-worldwide-statistics-and-trends/

Copy pasting data for USA since you are so proud to raise your family in USA.

Single parents in the United States
Single parents have more than tripled as a share of American households since 1960.
1 in 2 children in the United States will live with a single parent at some point in their lives.
According to the 2016 census:
27% of children under 18 live in single parent households in the US
80% of these households are headed by single mothers
More than 23% of American children are being raised without a father
4% of children are raised without their mother
Two-thirds of American single parent households are white, 1/3 are African-American and 1/4 are Hispanic. One-third have a college degree and 1/6 have not completed high school.
Marital status of American single mothers:
49% were never married
30% are divorced
17% are separated
3.5% are widowed
42% have one child and 32% have two children.
About 60% of single mothers in the US live in poverty. Only 29% of single mothers ever received child support, and the average per month received by these mothers was $432.
Marital status of American single fathers:
38% were never married
40% of single fathers are divorced
16% are separated
6% are widowed
56% have one child and 29% have two children
Single fathers are more likely to be divorced than single mothers, who are more likely to never have been married.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 24 Oct, 2019 05:13 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Just because people don't divorce does not mean that the marriage is successful. Obviously, if divorce is illegal or penalized than there will be fewer divorces. I don't want to single out Muslim countries. To me the issue is country with sexually repressive laws.

In the most sexually repressive countries, they threaten to kill people for violating a marriage. If you need to threaten to kill someone to keep them in a marriage...they aren't happy.

There are lots of stories about marital abuse, or husbands killing their wives, or wive having to run away coming out of these countries.

I got a divorce. I can tell you with complete certainty that my divorce made us both happier. We have a daughter who is happy as well.



maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Oct, 2019 05:20 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Is it true that in some parts of the Muslim world they have temporary marriage? As I understand it, this allows me to be married to someone for a set period of time for the purpose of having sex.

I think this is a brilliant idea; a compromise that allows for the fact that people like to have sex with the traditional idea that people should be marriage.
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 25 Oct, 2019 09:32 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Just because people don't divorce does not mean that the marriage is successful.


That's true. Divorce is a good option and better than marriage in some cases. Allah made divorce halal (permissible) and Allah doesn’t make anything “halal” that is not good...

-Divorce is a good option when after so long of trying; you can no longer see eye to an eye with your spouse... you’re distant from them on all levels...

-Divorce is a good option when there’s no love and mercy in a relationship (only hate, resentment and anger)

-Divorce is a good option when there’s a cycle of abuse in the relationship (physical, mental, emotional, sexual or financial)

-Divorce is a good option when you are not a priority and no matter what you do for the other person; you will never be “good enough” for them... you sacrifice, you compromise, you put your happiness second, you lose yourself and soul... but no matter what you do and give; you just won’t be enough or ever get their acceptance, love and approval of you...

-Divorce is a good option when your kids see all of the above... everyday... they witness the bitterness and toxicity... they absorb it all growing up...which will impact them for life and set the standard of what to accept for themselves from their own future relationships...

-If you’re married and living under these conditions, I’m so sorry, but this is not a marriage. This is a soul sucking transaction. This is a home that will send out traumatized people into the world. Everyday you lose a bit of yourself

Quote:
Obviously, if divorce is illegal or penalized than there will be fewer divorces. I don't want to single out Muslim countries.


As it is clear from my comments above that Islam gives an option of divorce if the marriage results in a toxic environment for husband, wife and kids. It is best to part our ways instead of live a compromised life. There are many verses and ruling on the topic of divorce in Quran.

Quote:
In the most sexually repressive countries, they threaten to kill people for violating a marriage. If you need to threaten to kill someone to keep them in a marriage...they aren't happy.

There are lots of stories about marital abuse, or husbands killing their wives, or wive having to run away coming out of these countries.


As I mentioned earlier, Quran does not teach to hold on to a toxic relationship. Islam does allow to have a divorce but that is as a last resort. Purpose of marriage in Islam is to have a happy, loved and respected family life, stay away from sexual relationship with anyone else other than your own spouse and raise kids together.

Quote:
I got a divorce. I can tell you with complete certainty that my divorce made us both happier. We have a daughter who is happy as well.


I am glad that divorce worked out for you and your family.
0 Replies
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 25 Oct, 2019 10:18 am
@maxdancona,
Mutah (temporary marriage) is a touchy subject because not only that it is unusual, it has also been distorted and misused throughout the years.
-In the Muslim world, the concept is more well-known in the Shia sect (about 15% of Muslims predominantly in Iran and Iraq), as they believe it is lawful and allowed.
-Sunni Muslims (about 85% of Muslims) believe Islam does not allow to have a temporary marriage.
-However, when the concept was first introduced, all Muslim sources show concurrence. It was during the time of Prophet Muhammad PBUH and many companions of Prophet Muhammad PBUH practiced it.
-So why we have difference of opinion?
---Sunni Muslims believe that temporary marriage was initially allowed in Islam but Islam did not want to bring a sudden change in the society which was largely polygamous. Prostitution was common and pagans of Arabia used to have many wives. So Islam took a very natural approach. Instead of allowing prostitution, it allowed to have temporary marriages. Muslims could marry up to 4 women at a given time. After a while, temporary marriages were abrogated which happened during last 2 years of Prophet Muhammad PBUH's time. The companions who have moved to other countries and did not live with Prophet Muhammad PBUH did not know about abrogation of temporary marriage and they continued practicing temporary marriage until someone told them that Prophet Muhammad PBUH has abrogated temporary marriage.
---Shia's believe that the practice of temporary marriage was never abrogated because it was still being practiced by some companions. They believe that it was not Prophet Muhamad PBUH who abrogated temporary marriage but it was the second Caliph Umar bin Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him).
---Who is right? Allah knows the best. My personal opinion after reading Quran and hadith is that it is safe to believe that temporary marriage was abrogated.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Oct, 2019 12:17 pm
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:

What one person refers to as being degenerate; is, what another might refer to as divine pleasure.

If nobody is being hurt by it (unless the participant/s so desire), then there's nothing wrong with it or in any way degeneracy.

I haven't been reading the thread, but this is pretty much my position.
0 Replies
 
Luxin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 05:28 pm
@Sturgis,
Quote:
What one person refers to as being degenerate; is, what another might refer to as divine pleasure.

If nobody is being hurt by it (unless the participant/s so desire), then there's nothing wrong with it or in any way degeneracy.


Sex is supposed to be Divinely pleasurable, with the stress on the adverb Divinely, which means holy or sacred.

The sex that you initially imply "one person" regards as degenerate reflects the misconception of a prude or morally judgmental fanatic. The ignorant fanatic who hates the body and its natural functions doesn't know that all that God/Nature gives us in the body with its desires and emotions is pure, perfect and free of "evil", which only starts in the mind.

Your first statement is fine in the sense that the judgmental fanatic who fears sex, hating themself for their desires which if unchecked by moral power and choices could ruin their life, seeks to condemn the body and sex, so calling sex degenerate, which in itself it is not.

The normal non-fanatic who accepts sex as a gift of God sees sex as beautiful or Divine pleasure.

In the second sentence you don't specify what kind of "hurt" you're talking about. Your parenthesis seems to imply the perversely desired physical pain of BDSM, so I guess you're just speaking of physical pain or hurt. However, if one cannot imagine any hurt beyond the physical, then one is not conscious of the full range of "hurt", and therefore the "hurt" or violation that is emotional, mental and spiritual and VERY FREQUENTLY found in sex even in the so-called "holy institution" of "marriage", most of which are not sacred or spiritual at all, and therefore also most sex within marriage, however pleasurable it may be, is NOT Divine. Not made too clear, but I'm trying not to write a book here. The bottom line is if one does not understand the above, one will not know what I mean by "sexual degeneracy", which could be called "unholy or profane sex", the profane being that which demeans the sacred essence of a person or sacred angel of God.

Sex is not parallel to eating, and the reason billions get in serious trouble with it is because they think it is just that basic. What people don't know or are ignorant of can and does hurt them in a range of ways, even **** up their life (no pun intended) quite badly. One sacred purpose of sex is creating children. That higher purpose demanding responsibility is why God/Nature, in the Adam-Eve allegory, eternally damned the couple for their loveless sex. Love is the Divine aspect in the ideal Divinely pleasurable sex of two people who love and are committed to each other for life. When the Divine beauty of Love is absent from sex -- when it's just sex for the pleasure of sex analogous to eating -- that's where a world of "hurt" and bad karma comes to the participants in loveless sex. It does not matter if people consent to it, if they don't really love each other, sex is a seriously punishable sin.

No doubt clear as mud. Never mind.

================================================

My favorite "Nazi" fan here, maxdancona's first post was so stupid I voted it down from -2 to -3. But then it disappeared to me. Because I don't approve of that seeming censorship and I wanted the world to see it, I voted it back up to -2. When I could see it, then it became, as Uncle Trumpy says, "perfect".
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 05:46 pm
@Luxin,
I love being your "favorite Nazi fan", Sweetheart. In fact it kind of turns me on. I don't know how far you want to go with this fantasy, but I would goosestep for you any day.

I don't know what you think about homosexuality... but I love how you flirt with me.





0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Oct, 2019 06:03 pm
Biblically speaking, I don't think sex is divine at all. It is never spoken of in terms of godliness. The Apostle Paul said sexual desire was a weakness that should be avoided if possible.

And then there is Genesis.... Sex was not a gift from God at all, it was a gift from the Serpent. Before the fruit there was only innocence. After eating the fruit there was shame and childbirth (both benefits of healthy sexuality).

God made humans to be automatons, unable to truly feel, or desire, or love. It was the Serpent who gave us passion, desire, lust, and what Luxin is calling "divine" pleasure.

0 Replies
 
 

 
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