18
   

They’re 18 for Gods sake

 
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 02:04 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
How many have you attended where the people making their vows say that they will only stay together until they decide differently?


I don't think I've ever heard that particular wording. At the same time, I haven't heard the "til death us do part" wording in decades either (though I expect it still happens, particularly in High Anglican services).
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 02:09 pm
Quote:
to be my lawfully wedded wife, to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part."


Find that in any version of any Bible, Catholic or KJV or otherwise.

Joe(There is poetry and there are words)Nation
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 02:20 pm
@Frank Apisa,
this is your version of respectful opinions re other people's beliefs?


Frank Apisa wrote:


I do...and I allow it to give me a good laugh, because it is incredibly humorous.

Beth...a good proportion of Christians are far from being Christians. Many are song singing, hand waving somethingorothers.

It still is my opinion that the only real Christian church is the Catholic Church.

Yeah...and the check is in the mail. It can reasonably be argued that the official "Catholic Church position"...IS the Christian position. And since it was the Catholic Church that pretty much decided what is and is not "scripture"...the people that feel the Catholic Church is out of synch with scripture are on the wrong road.

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 02:30 pm
@ehBeth,
The words are not as important as the intentions, Beth. If a person makes an oath to his/her god that includes the intentions to remain married and faithful...then the oath stands. So...have you attended any marriages where the couple suggested that their intentions were to test the waters rather than have it be a life long undertaking?

In any case, All Catholic services include from the priest to the effect:

"Will you honor each other as man and wife for the rest of your lives?"

The parties to the marriage have to respond in the affirmative for the priest to allow them to go on to their vows.

In all Anglican services, the priest includes words to the effect:

"Will you have this man to be you husband; to live together in the covenant of marriage ? Will you love him, comfort him, honor and keep him, in sickness and in health, and, forsaking all others, be faithful to him as long as you both shall live?"

Some of the multitude of other Protestant churches have variations on these questions and intentions, but I can find none that suggest a limited time for the marriage is acceptable.

Do you know of any?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 02:37 pm
@ehBeth,

Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5089931)
this is your version of respectful opinions re other people's beliefs?


Quote:
Frank Apisa wrote:


I do...and I allow it to give me a good laugh, because it is incredibly humorous.

Beth...a good proportion of Christians are far from being Christians. Many are song singing, hand waving somethingorothers.

It still is my opinion that the only real Christian church is the Catholic Church.

Yeah...and the check is in the mail. It can reasonably be argued that the official "Catholic Church position"...IS the Christian position. And since it was the Catholic Church that pretty much decided what is and is not "scripture"...the people that feel the Catholic Church is out of synch with scripture are on the wrong road.


A lot more respectful than many, many opinions offered on A2K.

In any case, my comment regarding respect in this area was:

But I understand and am respectful of the right of people to have a different opinion.

I am respectful of their right to have a different opinion. I am respectful of a person’s right to have an opinion that the Earth is flat…and the center of the universe. That does not mean I have to respect the opinion itself.

In any case, you are correct that I was a bit cheeky or close to the line in that comment you quoted…and I apologize for not giving the commentary a bit more thought.

0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 03:29 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Strange as most if not all churches will marry divorce people including the Catholic church even if the Catholic church make divorce people jump through all kinds of hoops to get the first married to be declare never to had been valid..


Well--if it was invalid it must have been. And your declarations that the Church is invalid is precisely the sort of justification it needs to say it has the same rights as you to make declarations and proceed accordingly.

Your bottom line is that your declarations only work in a world where all other declarations are invalid or silly.

I was once teaching science in an institution of the Higher Learning and I was asked if I would give 6 lectures, one a week, to a group of trainee ladies's hairdressers to give them an idea of the chemistry involved in their trade. The powers were branching out in all sorts of directions at the time in order to expand the size of their domain. Most of their time was spent in the styling and artistic expression department where they were taught the sort of skills a portrait painter uses when painting a duchess and hoping to get a further commission to do her 16 year old daughter sat in a bay window, with her red setter looking directly at the viewer, and holding a book whilst looking pensively into space as if pondering what she has just read. The title of the book not being obvious without a magnifying glass. They might not put it quite like that but I have a scientific cast of mind and that's about the size of it.

There were 7 or 8 of them. And they had been warned of this new guy coming over from science who had a red S-Type on the car park and was a bit dishy. They would be 17 or 18 I guess. I never asked. One doesn't ask ladies their age. My knowing what they were thinking added a palpable tension to the atmosphere which was quite fragrant. I had personal experience of trainee hairdressers and so the tension was pleasant. I knew they were thinking that they knew what I was thinking and that I was thinking that them thinking that was the thing they enjoyed thinking best and I took to it like a duck to water. And if they had to act as if I was Apollo himself then they were going to act it. Marilyn could act it but this was for real. No directors required.

Not quickly enough though. After some short explanation of why I was here involving the Head of Department having more diplomas to give out I set about using the whole blackboard to write MONEY with the side of a piece of chalk. I had had a few weeks notice. This took a while and when I turned around the two at the front two tables had their knees about 18 inches apart. Of course I tried not to look. I knew if they caught me looking they would close their knees and chalk up a victory. And all have a smirky-smirky and all my authority would be so much chaff blowing in the wind. I didn't look. I looked them in the eyes. Which caused them to expand the field of peripheral vision enough for me to begin to wonder if they were wearing knickers. Or trollies as hairdresser types call them.

I got through the hour coasting. At the end of the next week's sparring match the two ringleaders approached the dias and asked me if I would like an afternoon in the practice chair. Having nothing better that I could think of to do I agreed. I continued going over when I could to have my hair played with after the 6 lectures were done with.

Had circumstances been favourable, such as three or four of them inviting me to a party at a house where the parents were seeing Thailand, I cannot imagine me giving the slightest thought to them being my students or that I had taken advantage of them.

0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Sep, 2012 07:21 pm
@maxdancona,
Couldn't you say the same about any body else in a position of power?
Why is it bad for a teacher to have sex with students, if the students are of legal age?
If you are saying the reached had some sort of power over the students, you can say that about many other people.
Bill Clinton had power over Monica, but he isn't considered a sexual predator.
It seems to me that its who you are, not what you did,that decides if you get charged or not.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Sep, 2012 07:23 pm
@ossobuco,
Does it matter if he is the president and she is an intern?
After all,he had a lot of power over her and her career.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Sep, 2012 07:36 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Couldn't you say the same about any body else in a position of power?
Why is it bad for a teacher to have sex with students, if the students are of legal age?
If you are saying the reached had some sort of power over the students, you can say that about many other people.
Bill Clinton had power over Monica, but he isn't considered a sexual predator.
It seems to me that its who you are, not what you did,that decides if you get charged or not.

Clinton did wrong re Monica L. I refrained from voting for his second term.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Sep, 2012 07:39 pm
@edgarblythe,
My point is that if this teacher is a sexual predator, shouldn't Bill Clinton also be classified as a sexual predator?
After all, he did the exact same thing.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Sep, 2012 07:48 pm
Sure he fits the description. Society gives some a pass, when they are otherwise held in esteem and there is not much we can do about it much of the time.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Sep, 2012 09:25 pm
@mysteryman,
There is a significant difference between high school teacher -> high school student and boss -> intern.

A student is assigned to be with a teacher he or she doesn't get to choose. A student can't leave. A teacher has the ability to impact future college plans. A teachers primary job is to work in the best interest of the student.

An intern chooses to be with their boss and has the ability to leave for another opportunity at will. The boss is not there to look out for the welfare of his interns. The boss' primary job has nothing to do with interns. The boss has responsibility and only takes on interns if they happen to help with his job (which is a low bar since they are free). The intern is there to help the boss in hope of some experience.

These two relationships are significantly different.

I agree that boss/intern relationships are problematic and unethical. But teacher/student relationships are a breach of professional responsibility, and abuse of power and a failure of trust.

Teacher/student relationships are rightly illegal.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Tue 4 Sep, 2012 10:10 pm
@maxdancona,
You do know that this law covers any employee of the school down to the janitor correct?

Second ,there is a constitution right for adults to be able to pick their own lovers.

That right had been upheld in one state already and under those grounds a very similar law banning teachers/adult students sex had been declare unconstitutional by that state SC.

Then you have the issue if the state get away with this law what other groups are they going to make sex between illegal next.

Texas is the state after all that bust a retired teacher for selling a vibrator to what she was told was a married couple that turn out to be cops.

The GOP wish the government out of the boardrooms and into the bedrooms.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Sep, 2012 01:00 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Texas is the state after all that bust a retired teacher for selling a vibrator to what she was told was a married couple that turn out to be


So, because that incident is ridiculous, you and Hawkeye should be allowed the shag 14 year olds.

I see your logic is as bizarre as ever.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Sep, 2012 01:55 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
So, because that incident is ridiculous, you and Hawkeye should be allowed the shag 14 year olds.


misrepresenting my position again I see....I advocate letting 15 yo's shag whom ever they want, but allowing for an abundance of caution due to the existence of sexual predators I would be willing to live with the age of sexual freedom being 16 yo.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 5 Sep, 2012 03:21 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
A student is assigned to be with a teacher he or she doesn't get to choose. A student can't leave.


The school leaving age in Texas is 17. The four footballers could have left school.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 5 Sep, 2012 03:27 am
@spendius,
According to materialists and behaviourists Brittni was like the first tomato in the greenhouse to ripen. Or the first rose to flower.
0 Replies
 
 

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