They’re 18 for Gods sake

@ehBeth,

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You mean Catholic don't you?

He ought to do. Everything else is heretical one way or another. There is no point to other denominations unless they are heretical.

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@ehBeth,

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Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5089817)
Frank Apisa wrote:
If they are truly Christian, Christian teaching considers sexual encounters with someone other than one's spouse to be adultery.

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You mean Catholic don't you?

Although I get your point, Beth, really I do not mean Catholic. I mean Christian.

The Catholic Church is the Christian Church. Not sure what most of the Protestant denominations are, but if they are saying that a solemn oath made to the GOD of Christianity is easily disregarded, they probably are not really Christian Churches.

The participants of a Christian marriage marry themselves before their GOD...and promise NEVER to put each other aside. They promise to stay together until death. Every denomination I know of requires the participants to pledge to stay together until death...and none that I know of include a variation on, "or until we decide differently."

You are married forever within the Christian Church...and the fact that the governing authorities of a governmental jurisdiction can cancel the secular aspect of marriage, I do not see how that effects the ecclesiastical aspect.

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@ehBeth,

I gave the relevance. The possibility of witch-hunting by more serious sinners. Scapegoating.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

The Catholic Church is the Christian Church.

you do realize that a good proportion of Christians do not consider Catholics to be Christians - for them the Catholic Church is most assuredly not "the" Christian Church.

http://www.justforcatholics.org/a21.htm

http://carm.org/are-roman-catholics-christian

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If a Roman Catholic believes in the official Roman Catholic teaching on salvation, then he is not a Christian since the official RCC position is contrary to scripture.

~~~

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Every denomination I know of requires the participants to pledge to stay together until death

not so much these days

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@spendius,

Relevance of "the" Church.

Not going to work for you as an argument here.

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@spendius,

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I, Bill, take you, Mrs Bill, to be my lawfully wedded wife, to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part."

Sorry but the vows was taken in bad faith by her as she hid the fact that she had problems with drugs for one thing from me before we got married.

When that information came out I told her that I would stay with her and help her if she would try to get off the drugs and she did not take me up on that offer.

She broke her vows and one of the commandments in bearing false witness against me by claiming that I had hit her when the only one hit in that married was me by her.

She broke her vows when she used the fact that I had placed her name on my home that she had placed zero dollars in to allow her sister to remain in the home against my wishes after her sister brought in both drugs and stolen property into the home.

Her sister also borrow my new car then gotten high and wreck it when carrying a firearm of mine without my knowledge let alone my permission.

I could go on but I had zero moral obligation to not get rid of her as fast as possible.

Oh I for the fun of it checked on her by way of the public records and found first that she had talk her mother into placing her name on her mother paid off home and then had taken out a loan on it and then lost her mother home to the bank.

It a shame as I like my ex mother in law a fine lady.

PS I am and was at the time an open Atheist so the god part of the vows was meaningless to me and that fact was known by my then wife.

You can not get a god involved that does not exist.

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@BillRM,

Bill, the Daily Mail is not a credible source for anything.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Open minded as not allowing some religion teaching dating back a few thousand years to interfere with viewing the real world correctly?

Not allowing your mind to be shut down on such matters as the age of the universe and the earth or evolution and so on?

Wow, you really don't get irony do you?

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@izzythepush,

ahh, so all of Spendy's posts are to be taken as ironic

<nods>

some of them would definitely make more sense that way

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@roger,

I just thought your reaction was a bit extreme that's all. Spendi likes to use florid language, you were the one who made the comparison.

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@ehBeth,

That's not what I meant, but I'm not going to disagree with your interpretation.

What I found ironic is that a man who constantly references the American Revolution, and quotes Jefferson and Franklin in order to justify his obsession with firearms, should complain about people's ability to think being hamstrung by an outdated philosophy.

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@izzythepush,

Oh the last I look the outlooks of Jefferson and Franklin had nothing to do with a supernatural believe system that on it face is so silly that anyone older then ten should be ashame to give it any credit.

Both Jefferson and Franklin in fact was of the scientific mindset that would have no problem in accepting new information concerning any field of human knowledge such as evolution.

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@BillRM,

I think the stuff you believe in is every bit as nonsensical as anything the supernatural world has to offer. (And I mean anything, including tarot readings by cats, or terrapins that can see into the future.) Not only are you hidebound by an outdated mode of thinking, but your concept of History is even more far fetched than the parting of the Red Sea.

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@ehBeth,

Quote:

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5089841)
Frank Apisa wrote:
The Catholic Church is the Christian Church.

you do realize that a good proportion of Christians do not consider Catholics to be Christians - for them the Catholic Church is most assuredly not "the" Christian Church.
http://www.justforcatholics.org/a21.htm

http://carm.org/are-roman-catholics-christian

I do...and I allow it to give me a good laugh, because it is incredibly humorous.

Beth...a good proportion of Christians are far from being Christians. Many are song singing, hand waving somethingorothers.

It still is my opinion that the only real Christian church is the Catholic Church.

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If a Roman Catholic believes in the official Roman Catholic teaching on salvation, then he is not a Christian since the official RCC position is contrary to scripture.

Yeah...and the check is in the mail. It can reasonably be argued that the official "Catholic Church position"...IS the Christian position. And since it was the Catholic Church that pretty much decided what is and is not "scripture"...the people that feel the Catholic Church is out of synch with scripture are on the wrong road.

~~~

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Every denomination I know of requires the participants to pledge to stay together until death

not so much these days

Really? I'd love to know the names of the ones that do not...and how they word the vows taken at their marriage ceremonies.

Can you help me with that?

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@Frank Apisa,

Strange as most if not all churches will marry divorce people including the Catholic church even if the Catholic church make divorce people jump through all kinds of hoops to get the first married to be declare never to had been valid..

Even marriages that existed in some cases for decades with children

Game playing of the first degree.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

...and how they word the vows taken at their marriage ceremonies.

it has been up to the celebrants how they word their vows in most Christian weddings I've been to in the past 20 - 25 years - there is no one size fits all

~~~

You can be of the opinion that the Catholic church is "the" church, but that is not a universal belief, and has not been a universal belief for several centuries.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

Strange as most if not all churches will marry divorce people including the Catholic church even if the Catholic church make divorce people jump through all kinds of hoops to get the first married to be declare never to had been valid..

Even marriages that existed in some cases for decades with children

Game playing of the first degree.

I agree completely. There is game playing involved...often very determined and precise game playing.

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@ehBeth,

Quote:

it has been up to the celebrants how they word their vows in most Christian weddings I've been to in the past 20 - 25 years - there is no one size fits all

How many have you attended where the people making their vows say that they will only stay together until they decide differently?

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You can be of the opinion that the Catholic church is "the" church, but that is not a universal belief, and has not been a universal belief for several centuries.

As you know, I am not a big fan of "beliefs" ...so this means nothing to me. As far as I am concerned, the Catholic Church is the only so-called Christian denomination that really seems to be Christian.

But I understand and am respectful of the right of people to have a different opinion.

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@BillRM,

I don't see what your beef was with Mrs Bill if you reject Christian teaching. An important aspect of that teaching is to protect us men from the roller-coaster ride you went on.

If it says in a book that Moses slaughtered thousands and you conclude from that that him saying that we shouldn't bear false witness is silly then what are you complaining about?

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I could go on but I had zero moral obligation to not get rid of her as fast as possible.

Christian teaching allows you to do that. All it says is that you are still married to her. Not that you have to have anything to do with her.

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@spendius,

Silly person most of the ten commandments at least the ones dealing with how people should deal with each other was ripped off from concepts that existed long before the bible was written in any format.

Just as the idea of a virgin birth and a man god was ripped off of a concept long predating the Christian Jesus story.

Now I am willing to engage you in or outside of the Christian concepts of morals but not to be move from inside to outside that belief system.

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They’re 18 for Gods sake

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