They’re 18 for Gods sake

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Bill, I was talking about teacher/student relationships & power imbalances.

So the power imbalances between adults repeat adults who form sexual relationship only happen in schools?

I think this a key point. A boss has a lot more potential to harm an employee than a teacher does over a student but a supervisor sleeping with an employee is not illegal nor does it carry the threat of jail time. If an adult employee wants to sleep with the boss we may not like that and it is a civil litigation mine field but it's not illegal. When the students in this case became legally adults, the situation changed from adult placed in a position of responsibility over children to something more like college. It is clear to me from the reporting in this case that the teacher should face employment action but I don't see how a law aimed at protecting underage children applies to consensual sex between adults.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

I hope you realize that you answered msolga's questions with "I do not have to explain that" after saying you would answer her questions.

the questions (asked 2x by msolga):

Quote:

why is it acceptable to you that young males be initiated into sexual activity by older women (teachers in this case), while you feel more "troubled" by female students receiving similar treatment from male teachers?

And why (by your reasoning) would male teachers "initiating" male students worry you more than the situation that's being discussed here?

Frank Apisa wrote:

I will answer your questions indirectly...as a whole and in parts.

<snip of a pile of something>

I do not have to explain that...it simply is me sharing of my feelings. It was an acknowledgement that I did not have to make...but felt it appropriate to do so. I'll stick with it as is.

Saying you're going to answer her questions and then saying you don't have to ... why bother? why not just say you have no good reason for feeling that way?

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@engineer,

If you study the thumbing stats on this thread you will see that there's a certain intolerance on one side.

Quote:

I don't see how a law aimed at protecting underage children applies to consensual sex between adults.

Nor does anybody else on the minus brigade. That's why I went to some trouble to offer a more sensible explanation. That having such a law allows the cultivation of the positive reinforcers I mentioned right down to the consumers of news who admittedly only get a rather tame thrill. The lady is a football in an economic game and must have been innocent of the legal aspects because with four such witnesses there was no chance of it remaining a secret. The only other explanation is that she offered herself as the ball. Which I doubt because it implies she wanted her children to know which they now do thanks to the addicts of various positive reinforcements.

One might say that her prosecution abused her children in the service of whatever ends were in play with the full approval of all those involved. The disreputable and degrading line of blather sits very uneasily with 50 million abortions, nearly 10,000 gun deaths a year and various other matters which are best left to JTT to relate.

1 Reply

@spendius,

Quote:

Where can you get that done Bill? Is it expensive?

I personally find that electric shock therapy work will in causing my wife to forget why she is mad at me.

I was able to picked up an outdated machine on ebay from the fifths build at a time when they did tend to overdo the current.

Luckily her memory of her name came back to her within a week of the first treatment that I slightly overdid.

Keep the current low not set at maximum when dealing with those old machines. Cool

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@engineer,

engineer wrote:

It is clear to me from the reporting in this case that the teacher should face employment action but I don't see how a law aimed at protecting underage children applies to consensual sex between adults.

if people in Texas think there's a problem with their law they should do something about it

in the meantime, teachers in Texas should not have sex with their students if they don't want to run the risk of being charged/convicted

(it seems weird to me that the woman involved in this case apparently couldn't find anyone out there in Texas to have sex with who wouldn't get her into this kind of mess - I would have thought there was a larger pool of interested men)

2 Replies

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

The lady is a football in an economic game and must have been innocent of the legal aspects because with four such witnesses there was no chance of it remaining a secret.

innocent? she's a teacher. she's supposed to be smart.

Quote:

The only other explanation is that she offered herself as the ball.

I'm going with option 2.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

Quote:

if people in Texas think there's a problem with their law they should do something about it

Too bad that the people of Texas did not think that there is anything wrong about putting people in prison for having adult gay sex.

Strangely they did not take those laws off the books the Federal courts make them null and void instead.

Interesting mind set you do have that a state can do what the hell it wish to it citizens however.

You would fit right in living in the south before 1865 with slavery or in the 1950s where black citizens by law was not allow most civil rights.

In neither case did the citizens of Texas change the laws in one case it took an invading army and in the other the Federal courts back by arm US marshals.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

Actually, Beth, Olga's questions were:

Quote:

I'm curious about why hold this view, Frank.
You've talked about the benefits of young males being initiated by older women in different cultures. But let's stick to the culture we live in ( I'm not living in the same culture as you, though not too different)

Anyway, why is it acceptable to you that young males be initiated into sexual activity by older women (teachers in this case), while you feel more "troubled" by female students receiving similar treatment from male teachers?
And why (by your reasoning) would male teachers "initiating" male students worry you more than the situation that's being discussed here?
Personally, I can't see the difference. I wonder why you do.

I am not sure why you think I did not answer the questions, Beth.

I did answer them.

My answer was: "I do not have to explain that...it simply is me sharing of my feelings. It was an acknowledgement that I did not have to make...but felt it appropriate to do so. I'll stick with it as is."

Apparently you do not like that answer, but that is MY answer. I am not about to cede to you the right to tell me what my answer should be. What I offered is AN answer...and it is MY answer. If you or Olga do not like it, that's tough.

Quote:

Saying you're going to answer her questions and then saying you don't have to ... why bother? why not just say you have no good reason for feeling that way?

Once again, you are telling me how I should do things. I do not particularly care whether you like the way I do things or not...and I do not cede to you the right to tell me that I have to do things the way you might do them.

Anything else, Beth?

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@ehBeth,

Do you know if the lady was born and brought up in Texas Beth?

If she wasn't it might be a case of cultural misunderstanding and thus prison is not called for.

If she was then according to modern scientific theories of behaviour the State of Texas is responsible for her actions, and that of the other participants, and as the court is representative of the State it bears its share of the blame. Sloughing off that blame by scape-goating the lady is the lowest form of hypocrisy.

But Texas stands by Christian thinking I am told and therefore it is consistent in the matter. It is however witch-hunting.

Those who favour her sentence and also claim to give precedence to science over theology are up a gum tree.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

I quoted msolga's questions in their entirety. I didn't think you'd need to re-read the preamble again.

Why not just say "I don't want to answer" or "I don't have an answer"? that other stuff is not an answer.

Anything else?

Don't pretend that was an answer.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

You would fit right in living in the south before 1865 with slavery or in the 1950s where black citizens by law was not allow most civil rights.

You're assuming I'd have stayed in places with those laws or not campaigned to change them.

1 Reply

@spendius,

Where were you born Spendy? who can we blame for your behaviour? Laughing

Lucky for me that I'm not up a gum tree eh.

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@ehBeth,

Oh so if the state break the constitution and place people into prison you just move out of the state and every one is happy?

Quote:

campaigned to change them

I what way would you campaigned against them ?

By not obeying such laws as the civil right movement did with set-in and so on?

By the way the civil right movement in the south of the 50s-60s cost a hell of a lot of lives both white and black including children in church bombings.

So in any case, the woman teacher could in fact be following the King model of civil disobedience as no one is under a moral obligation to obey an unconstitutional law and this one is clearly unconstitutional on it face.

Her case is very likely to end that law as soon as it get into Federal court if not sooner.

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@ehBeth,

Quote:

I quoted msolga's questions in their entirety. I didn't think you'd need to re-read the preamble again.

Even without the preamble, you did NOT quote olga's questions in their entirety...but since you were into interrogation mode, why did you think the preamble was not important? And who are you to suggest that because you did not think I'd need to "re-read the preamble again" (kinda contorted comment) that I actually did not need to re-read it?

Quote:

Why not just say "I don't want to answer" or "I don't have an answer"?

Because I wanted to answer it MY way...rather than your way.

Quote:

that other stuff is not an answer.

My answer was an answer whether you want to accept it as an answer or not. I have no problem with you not wanting the answer I gave, but the fact that you don't does not impact on me at all.

Quote:

Anything else?

Not from me. Anything else from you?

Quote:

Don't pretend that was an answer.

I do not have to "pretend" it was an answer...it was an answer.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

the questions (asked 2x by msolga):

Quote:

why is it acceptable to you that young males be initiated into sexual activity by older women (teachers in this case), while you feel more "troubled" by female students receiving similar treatment from male teachers?

And why (by your reasoning) would male teachers "initiating" male students worry you more than the situation that's being discussed here?

Frank Apisa wrote:

Actually, Beth, Olga's questions were:

Quote:
I'm curious about why hold this view, Frank.
You've talked about the benefits of young males being initiated by older women in different cultures. But let's stick to the culture we live in ( I'm not living in the same culture as you, though not too different)

Anyway, why is it acceptable to you that young males be initiated into sexual activity by older women (teachers in this case), while you feel more "troubled" by female students receiving similar treatment from male teachers?

And why (by your reasoning) would male teachers "initiating" male students worry you more than the situation that's being discussed here?

Personally, I can't see the difference. I wonder why you do.

the bits with question marks are questions.

I quoted msolga's questions exactly as you did

you offered a response

Quote:

My answer was: "I do not have to explain that...it simply is me sharing of my feelings. It was an acknowledgement that I did not have to make...but felt it appropriate to do so. I'll stick with it as is."

you wouldn't let anyone else get away with that being an answer

2 Replies

@ehBeth,

Quote:

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5083812)
Quote:
the questions (asked 2x by msolga):

Quote:

why is it acceptable to you that young males be initiated into sexual activity by older women (teachers in this case), while you feel more "troubled" by female students receiving similar treatment from male teachers?

And why (by your reasoning) would male teachers "initiating" male students worry you more than the situation that's being discussed here?

Frank Apisa wrote:

Actually, Beth, Olga's questions were:

Quote:
I'm curious about why hold this view, Frank.
You've talked about the benefits of young males being initiated by older women in different cultures. But let's stick to the culture we live in ( I'm not living in the same culture as you, though not too different)

Anyway, why is it acceptable to you that young males be initiated into sexual activity by older women (teachers in this case), while you feel more "troubled" by female students receiving similar treatment from male teachers?

And why (by your reasoning) would male teachers "initiating" male students worry you more than the situation that's being discussed here?

Personally, I can't see the difference. I wonder why you do.

So...you agree that you left the word "Anyway" out...and we are in agreement that you did not quote the questions exactly. Whew! Finally a note of agreement, Beth. We can work our way to bigger and better things from that rough start.

Quote:

the bits with question marks are questions.

I quoted msolga's questions exactly as you did

Not EXACTLY, Beth. Remember the word "Anyway?"

Quote:

you offered a response

Quote:
Quote:
My answer was: "I do not have to explain that...it simply is me sharing of my feelings. It was an acknowledgement that I did not have to make...but felt it appropriate to do so. I'll stick with it as is."

you wouldn't let anyone else get away with that being an answer

Really?

And what would I do...throw a tantrum?

No, Beth, I would not throw a tantrum...I would hope that I would be man enough to simply acknowledge that the answer was an answer...not the one that I wanted, but an answer nonetheless.

Which it was.

Anything else???

1 Reply

...

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

benefits of young males being initiated by older women in different cultures.

Just a question does anyone here think that four high school jocks at the age of 18 was likely to be virgins for this teacher to deflower or whatever the term would be for taking the virginity of males?

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Bill...I would bet the farm that ALL the participants to these sessions enjoyed them very, very much. I have no idea if any of the young men were virgins before the encounters...and I think whether they were or not does not impact on the matter.

For now, the law is the law...and the woman is in prison. My guess is the young men are horrified that it has come to this. I think most reasonable, truly moral, decent people are also horrified.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

you ever spent any time in Texas, frank?

it is an eye opening experience for a lot of folks...

2 Replies

They’re 18 for Gods sake

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