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America is in Trouble!

 
 
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2012 12:03 pm
The line that struck me most during Romney's role out of the next Palin was his assertion that he is running because "America is in trouble".
This struck me for a couple of reasons. First of all, it is a very difficult premise for a political campaign. The idea that a democratic country is in trouble because of its own citizens is problematic, particularly when seeking the the votes of citizens.

I don't know if this idea of "America in trouble" has ever been part of a successful campaign. Reagan was "Morning in America". Obama was "Hope and Change". "American in trouble" is an awful downer.

But it is especially interesting in a campaign about the economy when Romney an Ryan want to take us back to G W Bush fiscal policy.

I think that "America is in trouble" is red meat to throw to a conspiracy theory driven right wing base that believes that Obama is destroying the country and equates the day birth control had to be covered by insurance with "9/11 or Pearl Harbor".

But for the general electorate, "America is in Trouble" has got to be one of the worst campaign slogans ever.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 7 • Views: 1,838 • Replies: 23
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dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2012 12:05 pm
@maxdancona,
Well put Max

However Barack has pooped some big ones too
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2012 12:27 pm
@dalehileman,
Do you have an example Dale? Is there something similar that Obama has used that rises to the level of campaign theme?
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2012 12:27 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

The idea that a democratic country is in trouble because of its own citizens is problematic, particularly when seeking the the votes of citizens.

If America is in trouble politically, then the bulk of that trouble comes not from the Left or the Right but from the corrupting influence of money on Congress, primarily due to lobbyists and the tendency of retired Congressmen to become lobbyists. And nobody is even talking about that problem, much less offering any solutions. Instead all we get is the dog and pony show of polarized politics as a big giant distraction used to keep people from looking at the real problem.

This describes what I'm talking about in more detail:
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2012 12:37 pm
The two slogans... "Believe in America" and "America is in Trouble" are contradictory; at least in the context of the Romney campaign.

Obama was elected by a majority of Americans and will likely be re-elected again by a majority of Americans. Believing in America would imply that democracy works and that Americans are capable of selecting what is best for them in the American system that allows them to select.

I would never go as far to imply that one (or even two) Mitt Romney administrations would mean the end of America.

Romney is embracing the radical element of his base.I think it is politically fooloish.
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2012 12:52 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Is there something similar that Obama has used that rises to the level of campaign theme?
Max I’m not very political but I’ll send a link to our most conservative friend Bor Michaelson and if he replies I’ll get back to you

Incidentally I’m a lib closet con but meantime unless Barack does something as dumb compulsory insurance I will vote for him
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2012 06:22 pm
@dalehileman,
Ah Dale,

Your response was an example of the equivalence fallacy. In truth, just because one side is doing something doesn't mean the other side is doing it.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2012 07:39 pm
@maxdancona,
don’t recall asserting they are, merely suggesting that both sides are somewhat overboard In fact if you will see above, I’ve elicited a conservative opinion
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2012 07:51 pm
Quote:
Twenty-seven percent (27%) of Likely U.S. Voters now say the country is heading in the right direction, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey taken the week ending Sunday, August 5.



http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/right_direction_or_wrong_track/

66% say we are on the wrong track. Romney is agreeing with the overwhelming majority, which is a shrewd tactic for becoming our leader, i he said anything else the majority would say "he just does not get it" .

Traditional American optimism is dead. The rules have changed.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2012 07:57 pm
@hawkeye10,
There is a big difference between "on wrong track" and "in trouble". And I challenge you to find an election where optimism didn't carry the day.

Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2012 07:59 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

The line that struck me most during Romney's role out of the next Palin was his assertion that he is running because "America is in trouble".
This struck me for a couple of reasons. First of all, it is a very difficult premise for a political campaign. The idea that a democratic country is in trouble because of its own citizens is problematic, particularly when seeking the the votes of citizens.

I don't know if this idea of "America in trouble" has ever been part of a successful campaign. Reagan was "Morning in America". Obama was "Hope and Change". "American in trouble" is an awful downer.

But it is especially interesting in a campaign about the economy when Romney an Ryan want to take us back to G W Bush fiscal policy.

I think that "America is in trouble" is red meat to throw to a conspiracy theory driven right wing base that believes that Obama is destroying the country and equates the day birth control had to be covered by insurance with "9/11 or Pearl Harbor".

But for the general electorate, "America is in Trouble" has got to be one of the worst campaign slogans ever.


I am not surprised one bit that this is his statement. The fact is, it is a true statement. If it weren't a true statement I would be more concerned about him using it as a tactic. In fact this statement is an understatement and mild to the actual reality. People still refuse to acknowledge or accept just how bad things really are.

However; with all that said, I don't think either Romney or Obama are solutions to america's problems. Regardless of which one we end up with, things are not going to get any better for the tax payers but the rich will continue to get richer. I doubt anything will change until the economy goes belly up and even then I think people will be so underwhelmed by the crisis that they will look to government for a solution. Not realizing this whole time that it was government causing the wounds. Like a person who is being stabbed to death by a serial killer and as their remaining breaths are being taken they hold their hand out hoping the killer will rescue them. Absurdity.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2012 08:00 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
There is a big difference between "on wrong track" and "in trouble

please enlighten me.

Quote:
And I challenge you to find an election where optimism didn't carry the day.
It would prove nothing to me. I just told you that my conclusion is that the rules have changed, what happened before is irrelevant.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2012 08:06 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:
People still refuse to acknowledge or accept just how bad things really are.

absolutely. There is a lot of economic suffering going on but most of it goes under the radar. There is very little understanding of how bad things are, how bad things are likely to get, and how hard it will be to get back to the life we had pre 2008. The economy has been hollowing out for decades while we lived on delusions and bubbles. Now we face the crash, the hangover.

It is 6am in american, and we are about to wake up with a splitting headache and missing our wallet. Making it to work is going to be a bitch.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2012 08:15 pm
Wolf Wolf Wolf! It is always the same.

You people have been yelling how America is in Trouble for hundreds of years now, yet we always seem to do OK. We had yellow perils and red scares. Letting women vote was to be the downfall of society as was integration and labor laws and the teaching of Darwin.

The people predicting the imminent demise of the American Republic have been around for years. Not only have they always been wrong wrong, but they are also almost always, in hindsight a drag on social progress.

Nothing has changed. There are always crackpots predicting imminent destruction. And the American people always choose leaders who paint a picture of optimism anyway.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2012 08:18 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
You people have been yelling how America is in Trouble for hundreds of years now, yet we always seem to do OK.


My grandparents told me some very harrowing tales of life on scratch Michigan farmland during the 1930's......things were most certainly not "OK".
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2012 08:20 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Wolf Wolf Wolf! It is always the same.

You people have been yelling how America is in Trouble for hundreds of years now, yet we always seem to do OK. We had yellow perils and red scares. Letting women vote was to be the downfall of society as was integration and labor laws and the teaching of Darwin.

The people predicting the imminent demise of the American Republic have been around for years. Not only have they always been wrong wrong, but they are also almost always, in hindsight a drag on social progress.

Nothing has changed. There are always crackpots predicting imminent destruction. And the American people always choose leaders who paint a picture of optimism anyway.


A person with "in god we trust" as a signature saying people are delusional has got to be the most ironic thing I have seen on this board in weeks.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2012 08:21 pm
@hawkeye10,
Sure, my grandparents had similar stories. But America pulled through thanks in large part to the actions of a very optimistic leader who, rather than dire warning of troubles, offered a New Deal.

hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2012 08:22 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
And the American people always choose leaders who paint a picture of optimism anyway.


Were you paying attention a week or so back when Obama got ate up for saying that things are fine?? He had to walk that back, of course.

WAKE THE **** UP!......your ignorance is embarrassing.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2012 08:23 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Sure, my grandparents had similar stories. But America pulled through thanks in large part to the actions of a very optimistic leader who, rather than dire warning of troubles, offered a New Deal.




America pulled through because of WW2 so history is not on your side here. The New Deal was done by 1936. 1937 was a horrible year. 1938 was not much better.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Aug, 2012 08:33 pm
@hawkeye10,
I have to agree with hawk here; WWII was what gave the US the kick-start that was needed to grow our economy.

The government went into debt; over 100% of GDP, to invest in war machines without knowing when the war would end. Immediately after the war, the government was "smart" enough to provide the GI Bill to our veterans who went to college in droves. It was the pent up demand for consumer goods and services based on the money Americans made as they worked in the factories to build those war machines. They were both (demand and education) necessary for our economy to grow.

 

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