20
   

NEWEST ROVER TO LAND ON MARS 8/6/2012

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Nov, 2012 09:57 am
@rosborne979,
That could result from the scrape of the surface.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 07:12 pm
@rosborne979,
sometimes things like "desert varnish" forms on small rocks that leave the underlying layers still in their natural colors. This is usually the result of dry air and winds on earth.

Fascinating captain
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 07:59 pm
@farmerman,
To me the lighter color top layer looks almost like a "crust" that has formed over a much finer and possibly "softer" under layer. The black under layer looks like extremely fine powder, while the lighter top layer is much more granular.

In a mix of materials like that isn't it a natural process for the larger "granules" to migrate to the surface and for the finer particles to go down? Maybe the larger grains are just a different material, and happen to migrate to the surface?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Nov, 2012 08:48 pm
@rosborne979,
I would think it depends on the proportional weights of the granules vs the sand.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Nov, 2012 06:58 am
@rosborne979,
Quote:


To me the lighter color top layer looks almost like a "crust" that has formed over a much finer and possibly "softer" under layer. The black under layer looks like extremely fine powder, while the lighter top layer is much more granular
Thats the way desert varnish appears. The fines are below the layers that the wind abrades . Course that black reaallly looks dark


Hasnt any conehead from NASA writteen a site report re: that shot yet?
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Nov, 2012 10:59 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Hasnt any conehead from NASA writteen a site report re: that shot yet?
I didn't see one, or I would have posted it.

Isn't there a term in geology for "the sorting of particles by size" in which larger particles rise to the top? I vaguely remember something about that, but I can't remember the name of the process...
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Nov, 2012 11:16 am
@rosborne979,
Found it: "Granular convection"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granular_convection

Interesting that they cite New England as an example, since it's something that I'm directly familiar with Smile

Quote:
Geology
In geology, the effect is common in formerly glaciated areas such as New England—new stones appear in the fields every year from deeper underground. Horace Greeley noted "Picking stones, is a never-ending labor on one of those New England farms. Pick as closely as you may, the next plowing turns up a fresh eruption of boulders and pebbles, from the size of a hickory nut to that of a tea-kettle." [9] A hint to the cause appears in his further description that "this work is mainly to be done in March or April, when the earth is saturated with ice-cold water". Underground water freezes, lifting all particles above it. As the water starts to melt, smaller particles can settle into the opening spaces while larger particles are still raised. By the time ice no longer supports the larger rocks, they are at least partially supported by the smaller particles that slipped below them. Repeated freeze-thaw cycles in a single year speeds up the process.
This phenomenon is one of the causes of inverse grading which can be observed in many situations including soil liquefaction during earthquakes or mudslides. Granular convection is also exemplified by debris flow, which is a fast moving, liquefied landslide of unconsolidated, saturated debris that looks like flowing concrete. These flows can carry material ranging in size from clay to boulders, including woody debris such as logs and tree stumps. Flows can be triggered by intense rainfall, glacial melt, or a combination of the two.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Nov, 2012 11:37 am
@rosborne979,
Wow! Great info.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Nov, 2012 11:49 am
@cicerone imposter,
A few years ago there was a "bulge" developing right in the middle of the street in my neighborhood. Over a few years it grew (under the asphalt) from a small bulge to a bump big enough to be damaging to cars driving over it.

Eventually the town came along and dug it up. What they pulled out from under the asphalt was a boulder the size of a small car which was slowly rising year after year. Took some major back-hoe action to get it out. Then they just rolled it off to the side of the road where it sits today.

New England is full of these things. I've seen isolated boulders as big as a house. Very impressive.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Nov, 2012 12:08 pm
@rosborne979,
I've obtained most of these kinds of info from swamps and what little geology I know, and I also know my impressions can be 180 degrees off the mark. Interesting subject, but still interested enough to learn more because of all the different terrains I have seen over the world - and now Mars.

Also, my observations have been of roads caving in - not outwards. I remember a huge road broken down in Chicago a few years ago.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 09:01 pm
Although no cameras have yet caught sight of them, it seems whirlwinds of dust have been skirting around the six-wheeled vehicle.

From the data gathered by Curiosity's meteorological station, scientists think dust-devils may even have run over the robot.

It is not entirely unexpected. Vortices of dust whipped up by the wind have been pictured by previous Mars rovers.

"A dust-devil looks essentially like what you would expect from the movies - a tiny tornado that is lifting dust," explained Manuel de la Torre Juarez of Nasa's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) and a scientist on the Rover Environmental Monitoring Station (Rems) instrument.

"Understanding these phenomena is very important because the Martian climate is driven largely by its dust cycle."

This is most evident when the planet is gripped by dust storms that can envelop the whole globe. Dust in the atmosphere warms it.

The Rems instrument was the sole part of the rover that suffered damage when it touched down in the equatorial Gale Crater back in August.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 09:03 pm
@edgarblythe,
The first thought that came to mind was how can they have those kind of "whirlwinds" when there isn't any atmosphere?
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 09:05 pm
@cicerone imposter,
But there is an atmosphere. (wikipedia): The atmosphere of Mars is, like that of Venus, composed mostly of carbon dioxide though far thinner.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 09:05 pm
@edgarblythe,
Thanks; didn't know that.

0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 09:23 pm
@edgarblythe,
I kind of understood that, but it left me wondering about the effects of wind in lower gravity. Could the low "air" pressure lead to higher wind velocities and a lower gravity lead to more airborn particles?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 10:02 pm
@roger,
Good q. Seems the thin air would require less force for it to be "disturbed."
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Nov, 2012 10:25 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Plus there is much more dust to blow than there is on Earth.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Nov, 2012 08:33 pm
A recent image shows a shoebox sized rock.

It looks odd to me. It seems to have layers like it might be sedimentary, but it also seems to have cracks due to "folding" like it might have been magma at one time. The laser was used to take a spectra on it, but I haven't seen any results of the tests yet.

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/images/pia16452_Rocknest3_Mcam-whitebalanced-br2.jpg
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Nov, 2012 10:19 pm
@rosborne979,
I think you may be right; those cracks probably occurred as they were cooling.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Nov, 2012 10:39 pm
@rosborne979,
Id say that those "cracks' are vesciclles where other melr rocks had cooled in cracklike holes in the rock. This occurs in Hawaiian lavas. They too can look sedimentary sometimes. There appears to be soome cirular features that may be gas bubbles or liquid incusions. Or, depending on why those bigger chunks had been blown around , they could be "remelt" features if a meteoritehit the surface and blew the rocks about
 

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