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The 2012 debates!

 
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 05:03 am
@Frank Apisa,
I don't think so Frank. I am feeling pretty confident about this one. Romney is a horrible candidate; he is the Michael Dukakis of the Republican party. Not only does he come with a unconvinced base and a life story that fits Obama's narrative better than his own, Romney is also stiff gaffe-prone and has difficulty being sincere about anything.

Please vote, but even with our economic sluggishness I am feeling pretty good about the outcome.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 01:01 pm
@farmerman,
There is nothing that will cause me to stay home. I will vote; I will vote for Barack Obama; I will do so with enthusiasm.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 01:04 pm
@maxdancona,
As I said to Farmerman, there is nothing that will cause me to stay home. I will vote; I will vote for Barack Obama; I will do so with enthusiasm.

But the economy will dictate the winner...and the economy sucks and will continue to suck throughout 2012.

I see a loss for Obama in November. I hope I am wrong...but I see a loss for Obama in November.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 01:05 pm
@maxdancona,
You wrote,
Quote:
and has difficulty being sincere about anything.


That's what I also see in Romney. That's the reason why I criticized his touching of the West Wall as if it meant anything to him - except to win the Jews' support.

A fraud in every way.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 01:42 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Romney today stated that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. No other US president (or sane head of state of any country) has ever done this as it ruins any chance of the US being any part of a peace process in the Middle East.

This to me is worse.

Candidate Obama said it in a 2008 address to AIPAC...

Quote:
"Let me be clear," Obama said, "Israel's security is sacrosanct. It is non-negotiable. The Palestinians need a state that is contiguous and cohesive and that allows them to prosper. But any agreement with the Palestinian people must preserve Israel's identity as a Jewish state, with secure, recognized and defensible borders. Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided," he added, in efforts to secure the Jewish vote.


Abbas, as per usual, got pretty angry.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 01:47 pm
@Irishk,
That and many other reasons leave me "not too enthusiastic" for Obama.
But I must admit, he's 1-thousand percent better than Romney. (Maybe 10-thousand percent.)
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 04:02 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

The problem is this two party system where nothing other than the forced two parties are allowed in.


This is a false statement. I have voted for a third party candidate at every level - local, state and for president. If these candidates 'weren't allowed in,' that wouldn't have been possible.

The fact is that a developed third party in this country hasn't garnered the support it needs to win any significant number of elections. There are a variety of factors behind this, but the system itself prevents that from happening in no fashion at all.

Remember 1992?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1992

Ross Perot got almost 20% of the vote that year. That pretty much destroys your above statement that such things can never happen. They can. There just has to be a societal push large enough to establish this third party. Right now, there is none. That's not the fault of the system.

Quote:
They have essentially rigged the system to maintain the ideals of these two parties that are essentially the same.


You're totally wrong. This probably sounds profound in your head, but it's not supported by any facts.

Cycloptichorn
Suggesting whoever wins doesn't matter is indeed the height of idiocy, and most especially for the ability to nominate justices for SCOTUS as Cyclo pointed out. But, Krumple is not "totally wrong" about the two party system electioneering against third parties. Indeed Ross Perot got almost 20% of the vote in 1992; but that's only half the story. The man doubled his polling numbers after the Presidential Debates in that election, after spanking his opponents vigorously on the big stage. The response? Four years later the two parties combined forces to block Perot's participation in the Presidential Debates. That is the fault of "the System" and it is very well supported by facts. Those old enough to remember will recall the National Debt was Perot's main platform... some TEN TRILLION DOLLARS ago. He ran precisely because neither candidate from the 2 party system could tell the truth about the debt and get elected. He remains the only candidate I've ever seen who actually proposed an honest solution to that dilemma.

With sufficient video footage; Romney could debate most issues with his former self... and still lose. He's at least as much of a flip-flopper as John Kerry ever was... and he's pretty consistent about flipping to the wrong side of right. Obama will likely exploit this simple truth in route to a second term, slapping the wazzock around handily in the process. (Great word, wazzock)
Cheers all.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 05:48 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Hi Bill!

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 05:59 pm
@Irishk,
Yeah, I forgot about that. Obama pandered to Israel too. But I stand by my points with the other issues.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 06:00 pm
@OCCOM BILL,
Quote:
Those old enough to remember will recall the National Debt was Perot's main platform... some TEN TRILLION DOLLARS ago. He ran precisely because neither candidate from the 2 party system could tell the truth about the debt and get elected. He remains the only candidate I've ever seen who actually proposed an honest solution to that dilemma.


Yeah, but did Perot win a second term?
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2012 06:04 pm
@maxdancona,
Not possible. (Wiki is A2K's next door neighbor, btw.Wink
0 Replies
 
 

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