Creationism is the claim. What is the evidence?

There is absolutely no evidence of a soul. We could have two simultaneous souls, or 15 souls runing through us every second. How would you know if you lost yours? How would you know if you never had one?

Other animals are self-aware (the mirror test) and intelligent. If you have a cat or dog you can see them being idecisive all the time.
And intelligence doesn't make sense past a certain level for some animals - How the heck would it benefit a giraffe to waste energy on building up it's brain? (Yes, the brain takes a lot of energy to grow and function.) Past the level of being able to find food and avoid predators, a larger brain would do absolutely nothing for a giraffe. They can't make anything.

We use our intelligence as a tool - for social interaction, for making things. Humans are basically powerless without intelligence (have you seen our nails? We cut like butter - no natural protection. Our mouths don't even stick out of our head far enough for biting.)

The only process more complexly convoluted than the 'theory of evolution', is the evolution of the theory itself.

If I remember correctly (read origin of species in 10th grade) Darwin didn't say evolution lead to the very beginning, the first cell, or anything like that. He presented it as a theory about existing species, and then the academic community built on.

Darwin's points leading up to evolution have been confirmed - we see genetic drift, we see natural selection, and we see microevolution. We see it in mimicry of butterflies, we see it in the domestication of dogs from the grey wolf or somthing like it (all dog/wolf/dingo/cyotes can interbreed and produce fertile offspring, mind you.) We see it in bacteria adapting to anitbiotics.

Definition of species= any animal that can mate and produce fertile offspring with any other animal. (So, not a mule.)

However, we have not replicated macroevolution, or, when one species becomes another speices ( have adapted so far from each other they can no longer interbreed but once could. ) The fossil record is supposed to prove this - because many animals come from a common ancestor who cannot breed with each other - probably because of plate movement and other geographically separating conditions). But I'm am with you - a little skeptical until it can be reproduced under lab conditions. The problem with this is it could take longer than humans have been on the planet for, so they are trying to work with species that mate and breed extremely fast. I am not up to date on these experiments.

So, please do not discard evolution as a way to understand genetic drift, etc. If you like, you can simply say "I believe in micro-evolution." If you do and sound intelligent :wink: . What do you think about the fossil record? It seems to hold up to me, but again, lab experiments are more straightforward as evidence.

So, technically it has never been modified or bunked, but macroevolution isn't in the "fact" bag yet.

Portal, you are ssooo sweet!
God Bless You.

Portal, you are ssooo sweet!
God Bless You.

Sometimes I st-st-stutter and repeat myself repeat myself.

Assuming that you have actually got the ability to read, then READ my post above. That explains the difference between the colloquial use of the word THEORY and the scientific use of the word. Maybe with a bit of education you'll drag yourself out of the superstitious dark ages and "see the light"!!!!!!

These people don't read, Wilso. They just beat a dead horse. It must be comforting, indeed, to be so self-absorbed in one's faith that logic and rational thought become totally irrelevant.

Yes, I've always seen it (religion) as a crutch. A crutch for those frightened little minds unable to come to terms with the billion to one accident that it their existence.

it's amazing how some of you are on a mission to destroy Christians....your hated is disturbing....yet revealing

First of all our goal is not to destroy but to show the fallacies of it. Showing htat religion in general is false.

Anyways onto explaining certain things:


Unbelievably nieve. Sea Life fossils are found on mountains/deserts/Grand canyons/etc... becasue of PLATE TECHTONICS. Certain pertions of the Earth that are no longer underwater were underwater at one time (like Mt Everest). This also explains why we may find similar fossils in South America and Africa. Other things such sa seafloor spreading and other sedimentary nuances are casue by the same thing.

Secondly, there is not enough water to cover the entire Earth. I owuld be surprised to find out where you got thsi idea from. Ocean water couldnt be used to flood the Earth because it busy "flooding" the oceans. On average 2% of the atmosphere is water vapor. THis is a VERY small amount and if it liquified couldnt flood the earth.

Thirdly, the reason scientists are trying to find water on Mars is the possibility of it being FROZEN (as in the sloid ice form not the water form) at polar caps and undergound in caves etc..

You can "ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! " all u want but your still wrong. The saddest part is you accept weird bible stories with no proof and yet cant accept scientific fact. I ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! at you because you raise points to disprove evolution adn yet in the process only prove it. You dont try to find the REAL answers to your questions but instead blame God for everything. Nothing i threw at you just now is theories. THey are stone hard fact (exept for seafloor spreading but you probably dont know what that is so it doesnt matter)

Next i would like to go onto the subject of the origin of the universe. Frank has great logic in this field. His explanation EXISTENCE is not matter is very logical and makes you think. He's right matter can be broken to the SIMPLEST form and its not made of anything. So it is literally "nothing" and just exists. Nasturally existance can form from nothing since it is not matter.

Also (aside form the multiple Big Bang/BIg Crunch theory) the idea is that there was NO befor ethe big bang. AFterall time begins with the big bang. Since "before" is a time reference, it cant be used. There was no time before the big bang; hence there was no before. TIme is a dimension believe it or not and can be bent warped, etc... I oculd give you the whole relativity lecture if you want. However this area of science is more around theory but htey have PROOF. God's creation has none save the bible. In case you wonder what the proof of the big bang i suggest you go on google and search for Unverse Origins and STeven Hawking (he understands it better than anyone) and stop asking other forumers to answer complex questions. Just because we may not know the answer it is important to note that DOES NOT mean the answer isnt out there.

i) The big bang is a logical conclusion by many scientists, but the consistency of their language (i.e., math) is not proven. In that sense believing in the big bang is a type of faiths.

ii) God is a logical (or more) conclusion by believers, but is not proven by logic, and hence a faith has a meaning.

Both are very similar in the fact that they believe something ungrounded (at least in a logica sense).

micah -- I, for one, can find no reason at all why a person cannot be a Christian and a rational and reasonable person at the same time. The whole notion that a true Christian has to, somehow, be ignorant and accept the mumbo-jumbo pseudo-science of Creationism is repugnant to me. A Christian accepts the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. I don't recall that Jesus ever mentioned the creation of the universe.

Since that is so, most 'fundamentalist' or 'evangelical' Christians fall back on the argument that the entirety of the Bible is the word of God and its truths unassailable. And if this is so, they say, then the world was created in exactly six days, per Genesis, Chapter One. I wonder, though, on what basis these people decided what, to God, is a 'day.' To an omnicient, omnipotent and omnipresent Diety, time is irrelevant. For, say, a mosquito, one day is a lifetime. We may insist that the Bible is not subject to interpretation, yet even the most hide-bound devout of us interpret it when we interpret 'on the first day' [etc...] as meaning 24 hours earth-time. A 'day' is of different duration on other planets. And, if you believe in God, surely you realize a day to God can be whatever He wants it to be. A million years, two billion in man's understanding...?

Merry Andrew - or maybe the Bible was written as a method of social guidence. It was written by humans, you know. All Christians I know of acknowledge that it was written by humans (it says so in the bible - by chapter.) Even if G-d was whispering in their ears, it wasn't about quantum physics, it was about a moral and human life guiding system. You can be a Christian and also acknowledge that much of the bible is parable, not historical event.

LA, LA, LA, LA, LA etc

of course i realize this...

Portal, creationists and evolutionists each interpret the fossil record to support their belief. One professing an impartial assessment may surmise it favors evolution, yet, even at the earliest level there is nothing that can be truly classified as a simple life form. And you're correct; proof of macro evolution will only come in witnessing it. I'm confident we'll never see it, but even if we do, and it's induced.......?
I don't really keep up either (because I'm at church of course), but radiation bombardment on several thousand generations of fruit flies produced five-winged, nine-legged, gargantuan-headed.......fruit flies. (I can't believe someone would do that to their own relatives!)

i have to disagree...there WAS a time before the bigbang...we just use the TERM before because we're familar with that TERM...

another definition of time (i think) is the breaking down/decay of matter...even though star and galaxys are born and die, things tend to breakdown, ie; half-lives....

in Gods 'dimension', there is no breaking down/decay of things, however i'm sure one would feel the 'sensations' of time....

el diablo, your logic limits God, but by definition God is all powerful....

he could have used 'evolution' or he could have 'created' the illusion of his creation being 15 billion years old, our generation may not know until after death....God is all powerful...the main point is now HOW he did it, but the fact that he did...for all of us, out of love...and how LUCKY we are that the one true God of all existence is a God of love!!

That dead horse must really be getting sick of being whipped.