5
   

Proof the universe doesn't exist?

 
 
Amoh5
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Apr, 2016 08:12 am
@Edward Fenel,
I think what he's trying to say Ed is that "existence" and "non-existence"(or nothing) are two different descriptions.
You can't reinvent the English language by saying nonexistence(nothing) means existence, it doesn't make sense...
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Apr, 2016 09:21 am
@Edward Fenel,
Define infinity please, Edward?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Apr, 2016 02:04 pm
@Edward Fenel,
Quote:
If you reach the Absolute by deleting things, we call it Nothing.


Nobody can "delete things" once it has existed. That's the reason why it can be described.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2016 08:25 am
@cicerone imposter,
Excelent reply. To the core. No thing already invokes thing first.
Edward Fenel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2016 01:50 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Quote:
Excelent reply. To the core. No thing already invokes thing first.
Of course, Nothing is not a thing. It is therefore not True, not False.

You cannot say anything about nothing.
Or, you can say Everything about Nothing.

Nothing is Black, and White

Nothing means no things, and "No thing already invokes thing first."
I agree.

The Absolute is non relative. It must be both true and false, it cannot be ust one or just the other.
0 Replies
 
Edward Fenel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2016 03:55 pm
@Amoh5,
Quote:
You can't reinvent the English language by saying nonexistence(nothing) means existence, it doesn't make sense...

I am not reinventing english language.

"Nothing" has the same meaning it always had : no thing. I didn't reinvent anything.

"Everything" has the same meaning it always had: every things altogether. I didn't reinvent anything.

Did I reinvent anything? No.

I am just telling you, that what we thought were 2 different things, are actually One and the same (but are not things)
Amoh5
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2016 05:23 am
@Edward Fenel,
I'm referring to your previous statement with Cicerone.
Your Quote:
Same here Everything and Nothing are the same.
But you reach Everything by considering more and more things. Whereas you reach nothing by considering less and less things.
.
Everything refers to existence, and nothing refers to non-existence. They are not the same.
However you could be a poet using abstract word arrangements to stimulate a mysterious romanticism.
But if you're not, then you are not alone using the word "nothing" as a reference to the universe, people such as 8rowser obviously. Some scientific opinions say that the universe was created from nothing, but I disagree...
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2016 09:33 am
@Amoh5,
Even non existence does refer to things by referring to their absence after them existing not before they come to be as they cannot be named before they are. Non existence is an a posteriori act of reasoning that which was and is no longer. Now if we think about the conservation of energy non existence in absolute terms is a fallacious argument. One could even argue that the very idea is self defeating as non existence does not exist by definition.
Amoh5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2016 10:09 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Yes you are correct Fil, maybe nothing is merely a man-made concept due to counting, and his limited senses of being able to independently detect energy transformation. Its amazing how living matter re-generates itself even after the expiry period, somewhat like perpetuality...
0 Replies
 
Edward Fenel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2016 03:01 pm
@Amoh5,
Quote:
Everything refers to existence, and nothing refers to non-existence. They are not the same.


They are the same. Because something only exists relatively to what it is not. (Without left, there is no right)

And therefore existence itself is relative, relative to non-existence.

Existence cannot "exist" without non-existence.

The Absolute is neither "existence" nor "non-existence".

In some sense yes, Nothing and Everything are different, ok...
..Nothing and Everything are as much different as "minus infinity" and "plus infinity". Because basically the problem is, we cannot talk about "pure infinity".

But if you make the mental effort to see it, you will see that minus infinity and plus infinity both points to the same infinity.
(if you have difficulties to see it on a straight line, just imagine your sraight line is actually a circle with an infinite radius)

Everything and Nothing are the same thing/ not-thing, seen from a different point of view.
0 Replies
 
Edward Fenel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2016 03:05 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Quote:
One could even argue that the very idea is self defeating as non existence does not exist by definition.

Yes ! You nailed it.
Nothing cannot exist.

Now, the same thing happens with "Everything", it cannot exist neither! Just the same thing seen from the opposite.

Because any "thing" that exists, is just one single thing, not Everything.
And if Everything is not any thing , you see Everything is no thing at all. (indeed in mathematics, the set of sets is not definable)
north
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 May, 2016 07:53 pm
@Edward Fenel,
Edward Fenel wrote:

Quote:
One could even argue that the very idea is self defeating as non existence does not exist by definition.

Yes ! You nailed it.
Nothing cannot exist.

Now, the same thing happens with "Everything", it cannot exist neither! Just the same thing seen from the opposite.

Because any "thing" that exists, is just one single thing, not Everything.
And if Everything is not any thing , you see Everything is no thing at all. (indeed in mathematics, the set of sets is not definable)


How did you get " Everything " down to an argument about a " single " thing?

It makes no sense .
Edward Fenel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2016 04:06 pm
@north,
Quote:
How did you get " Everything " down to an argument about a " single " thing?


Simply by showing that Everything is no single thing. Not any.
It is not a thing.


Oh, wonderful, it so happens that we have a word for that, precisely for meaning "not a thing". It is called "Nothing". I am not inventing it, that is what it means.
0 Replies
 
 

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