5
   

Proof the universe doesn't exist?

 
 
Edward Fenel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 11:22 am
@Amoh5,
Quote:
I would hardly call "going to work to earn a living" an imanginary motivation, it is an essential motivation...

By the way, on this wonderful planet, there is no fundamental need to work.

Food grows on the trees.
Water falls from the sky.

It is our society that is mad.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 12:38 pm
@Edward Fenel,
Quote:
Leadfoot Quote:
"Would you like my ex wife's number? She could tell you, she remembered quite a few.."

Did it help her in her current life?
She claims it does but I couldn't tell it from my POV, she seemed unhappy overall. I find those lives hard to believe anyway. Too many of them claim to have been kings & queens and other famous people.

But I just don't see the point of multiple lives that you don't remember. A person is their memories and what they've learned. If those are gone, that person is dead. You might as well live as if this one was all you had.
Edward Fenel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 12:41 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
But I just don't see the point of multiple lives that you don't remember.
You don't remember now, you will later.

Quote:
A person is their memories and what they've learned. If those are gone, that person is dead.
In fact, birth can be seen as a death.

Quote:
You might as well live as if this one was all you had.
That might be among the reasons why we chose not to remember.


It seems what you are missing is that plenty of stuff happens between "lifes".
Have you read dr. Michael Newton's book?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 01:02 pm
@Edward Fenel,
Quote:
Quote:
"But I just don't see the point of multiple lives that you don't remember."


You don't remember now, you will later.
So who or what is it that decides when the blinders come off? If it's me, why can't I decide to do it now? I can't ever see myself agreeing to forget in the first place but I'd resend that decision if I had the choice.

I haven read Newton's book but read a lot of the on-line new age explanations of what goes on between lives. Stuff like seeing what went wrong in your last one and what kind of life would be best for getting it right next time, then signing a 'life contract' that included the forgetting clause before having another 'go'.

The enlightened souls who confidently say all this also make a lot of predictions. Dec 21, 2012 was supposed to be 'The Day' when all these secrets were revealed. The excuses and scrambling for reasons for the next magic date has been entertaining if nothing else.
Edward Fenel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 02:39 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
So who or what is it that decides when the blinders come off? If it's me, why can't I decide to do it now?
You can, you are just not deciding it.
The problem is there are several "layers" of you. Your higher self knows everything, and it is pretending to be Leadfoot (to experience how it is). Your higher self, the real you, already decided not to remember. Is there anything new that should make it change its choice? The fact that Leadfoot would never agree to it, is not something new, it was part of the plan, of the choice. So why change choice now?

Quote:
The enlightened souls who confidently say all this also make a lot of predictions. Dec 21, 2012 was supposed to be 'The Day' when all these secrets were revealed. The excuses and scrambling for reasons for the next magic date has been entertaining if nothing else.
Haha I totally agree, this is all crap.
Except that you only hear the people who actually talk, and only those who have something to gain from saying it, would say it.

In other words, there is a selection bias. You only hear the bullshit, because honest enlightened ones don't feel the need to be heard.

In addition, I know someone who remembers his past lives, who often does out-of-body experiences (and more), and he says that those who say those predictions are bulshitters, and that nothing will change anytime soon. So not all of them are to be put in the same group.


Quote:
Stuff like seeing what went wrong in your last one and what kind of life would be best for getting it right next time, then signing a 'life contract' that included the forgetting clause before having another 'go'.
You described what would seem to be what happens just after the life, and just before the life. But between there is so much more apparently. Not everything is centered around earthy life, not surprisingly.

Interview of Michael Newton, if you are lazy reading ^^
https://youtu.be/JFv4VAk5G2s?t=27s
(For some reason it has french subtitles.. can't find it without)
Amoh5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 08:03 pm
@Edward Fenel,
My Quote:
I was tempted to ask you if you think you have magic powers
.
Your Quote:
The quick answer is yes.
.
You should see your doctor about this Ed, we wouldn't want to see you end up in a cuckoo clock, you seem like a nice guy.
.
My Quote:
We are living in a hard work universe where success can only be accomplished by hard work not on wishful thinking or imaginings.
.
Your Quote:
That is precisely what you are imagining. Don't you see?
.
My will to work to earn a living is not motivated by imagination, rather essentiality to pay bills etc etc. One must "think" when they are doing the work I do, imagining will get me into trouble or even fired.
.
Your Quote:
By the way, on this wonderful planet, there is no fundamental need to work.
Food grows on the trees.
Water falls from the sky.
It is our society that is mad.
.
Are you planning to live out in the wilderness Ed? It could get a bit complicated out there, all the best if you are...
.
PS: I overheard someone say that, when a person thinks or is convinced they are normal, it actually means they are mad...
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 08:47 pm
@Edward Fenel,
Quote:

Interview of Michael Newton, if you are lazy reading ^^
https://youtu.be/JFv4VAk5G2s?t=27s

That was much like the accounts I read in the books my ex had. Here's the thing. Virtually all the accounts are about problems caused by things that happened in past lives. The problems could not be resolved until they were remembered, albeit under hypnosis. My point is, what use are these past lives if all they do is pass on problems into future lives? I still do not see the benefit of the reincarnation scenario.
Edward Fenel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 11:35 am
@Amoh5,
Quote:
PS: I overheard someone say that, when a person thinks or is convinced they are normal, it actually means they are mad...
You think you are normal, right?

Quote:
You should see your doctor about this Ed, we wouldn't want to see you end up in a cuckoo clock, you seem like a nice guy.
You should justify why you think I am wrong.
Instead, you are just saying I am wrong, without justification.

it is like saying that the conclusion of a mathematical demonstration is incorrect, just by saying it is incorrect, whereas you should pint point where exactly there is a false statement within the demonstration that lead to the conclusion.

Quote:
One must "think" when they are doing the work I do, imagining will get me into trouble or even fired.
You made it clear that you didn't understand what I was trying to say.
It is not Amoh5 who is imagining this life, instead it is the real you who is imagining being Amoh5. The real you is not Amoh5. See the difference?


Quote:
Are you planning to live out in the wilderness Ed? It could get a bit complicated out there, all the best if you are...
Who is talking about wild?
If you decrease Earth population, there will be enough land and fruits on tree to be able to pick food for free without using intense agriculture. It doesn't mean you have to give up your bicycle or your home.
0 Replies
 
Edward Fenel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 11:41 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
Virtually all the accounts are about problems caused by things that happened in past lives.
By "all accounts" you mean specifically the accounts from those specific people who felt specifically bad enough in their life to make the decision to go see a hypnosis doctor?

How do you recognize someone who has no problem from past lives?

Quote:
I still do not see the benefit of the reincarnation scenario.
What about those horrible examples I gave a few comments before? It allows you to start anew.

In fact, you could say that when you do have a problem from a past life, it is because you did not forget it perfectly Smile If you did, it would not pollute you (if you see what I mean).
So the point of saying that people have problems from past lives is actually an argument in favor of forgetting.

What Michael does is communicating with the higher self of the person under hypnosis, and he asks the higher self to let go of that past life, and if the higher self agrees then the problem is solved.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 12:45 pm
@Edward Fenel,
Quote:
In fact, you could say that when you do have a problem from a past life, it is because you did not forget it perfectly
So the point of saying that people have problems from past lives is actually an argument in favor of forgetting.

You are still arguing for the benefits of forgetting, especially 'perfectly'. Using that standard, not even having past lives would be best of all.

But my real objection is that the benefits of remembering would far out weigh the benefits of forgetting.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 12:49 pm
@Edward Fenel,
Quote:
What about those horrible examples I gave a few comments before? It allows you to start anew.
Nothing is more satisfying than overcoming a horrible experience and being completely aware of it. The forgotten life scenario robs one of that invaluable experience.
Edward Fenel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 01:13 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
Nothing is more satisfying than overcoming a horrible experience and being completely aware of it.
Sure, you have your curent life for that. In fact, some people go through horrible things precisely for that purpose.
0 Replies
 
Edward Fenel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 01:17 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
But my real objection is that the benefits of remembering would far out weigh the benefits of forgetting.
And you will remember.

Most of the "time" you remember. "Life" between earthy lives, is longer.


Life, forgetting previous ones, is like an experiment. You don't do experiments all the time. You do experiments some times.

Once you have done the experiment, you have all the time you want to judge it, appreciate it, think about it, compare it to previous ones, use it how the hell you want.

What you are asking for, basically, is something you will have anyway. You will remember. You will have lives where you remember, too.

What's wrong with the diversity of experiments?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 01:48 pm
@Edward Fenel,
Nothing wrong with it. I just have a gut feeling that the bible and the beer commercial had it right:

"You only go around once in this life, so you might as well grab all the gusto you can get."
Edward Fenel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 01:52 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
"You only go around once in this life, so you might as well grab all the gusto you can get."
Hahaha, well it's correct actually.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 02:56 pm
@Leadfoot,
I trust all beer commercials. Wink
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2016 08:02 am
@browser32,
Cantor's theorum is complete bollux and 'powersets' are his imiginary friends.
Now - Define 'Universe', please?
Edward Fenel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2016 03:34 pm
@mark noble,
Quote:
Now - Define 'Universe', please?
To ask to define everything, is like asking "how much is infinity?"

Infinity is not a number.
Everything is not a thing. It is not definable.

To define is to delimit and confine. Infinity is the absence of limit, of fine, of boundaries. No-finity.

You cannot delimit and confine the infinite. The moment you definite the infinite, the moment you put boundaries to it, you lost it.

You cannot define Everything. (which by the way, is the same as Nothing)
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Apr, 2016 07:53 am
@Edward Fenel,
'everything' is not the same as 'nothing'.

And, by calling something 'infinity' (in this instance) you define, by labelling, its parameters.

And "everything" = The sum-total of all things, and works for me.

You are correct in many ways - I just think - how more time and perserverence will guide you to 'deeper' thought processes.

Good journey, sir.
Edward Fenel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Apr, 2016 01:07 pm
@mark noble,
Quote:
by calling something 'infinity' (in this instance) you define

I'm not sure about that.

You can talk about the Set of Sets, and yet it is not definable in mathematics. To talk about it does not necessarily mean to define it.


Quote:
'everything' is not the same as 'nothing'.
Ok, as much as -infinity is not the same as +infinity.

Infinity is one, the only difference is "from where" you reach it. If you reach it from left, we call if -infinity. From right, we call it +infinity.

If you reach the Absolute by deleting things, we call it Nothing.
If you reach the Absolute by adding things, we call it Everything.

A good endless journey to you too Smile
 

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