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Mass Shooting At Denver Batman Movie Premiere

 
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 07:56 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
reason why this was done in 2009, is according to your own source:
wi

Yes and I never said otherwise so what the hell is your point/

Gun control laws in the UK are not working to the point that the police need to start patrolling some areas of the UK with submachine guns in hand.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 08:03 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Gun control laws in the UK are not working to the point that the police need to start patrolling some areas of the UK with submachine guns in hand.
You're not seriously saying that, aren't you?
Do you really believe that an offence stops when there is a law against it?

And since you obviously do so: why do you just and only focus on pornography (anywhere) and gun laws in the UK?
parados
 
  3  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 08:05 am
@Walter Hinteler,
If we only passed laws when they clearly prevented any offense from every happening we would pass no laws.

The requirement that gun laws must be 100% effective compared to other laws is idiotic. But then idiotic is a word that often should be used to describe gun nuts.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 08:12 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
And since you obviously do so: why do you just and only focus on pornography (anywhere) and gun laws in the UK?


Be fair, Bill is also an advocate of drunken driving and rape.

He's a real sweetie isn't he?

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 08:14 am
@izzythepush,
Sorry, I've missed that.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 08:28 am
@Walter Hinteler,
His opinions feature prominently on these two threads. As he has very circular 'thinking' he keeps on repeating himself.

http://able2know.org/topic/182157-1

http://able2know.org/topic/158723-1
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 09:05 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Do you really believe that an offence stops when there is a law against it?



You are an odd person indeed for example agreeing with my position that laws do not have a magical affect and yet trying to claimed I am taking the 180 degree difference position on this issue out of thin air.

I can not figure out if you are game playing or that your mind can not understand clear positions people had taken but whatever it is if either the game playing or whatever else it might be does not stop I will placed you on ignore.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 09:06 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Yes and I never said otherwise so what the hell is your point


The point is, Bill, that you will search in every hole and corner of history for exceptional cases, none of which you understand, to try to prove that your position had credible evidence when the whole point of laws is how they play out in the masses.

In other words you treat A2K as if it is a junior girls Sunday School class. And probably everybody else you come across.

You treated the DSK case in a way entirely referenced to your own experience with a woman. You were grinding an axe then and you are doing now.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 09:13 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
18 armed policemen in parts of three areas of London in 2009 on patrol ...


Which means, with shifts, 6 at at one time in 3 small districts none of which are typical of England. That's 2 per district. To deal with a temporary problem.

What a ridiculous submission it was in a discussion about a nation with nearly 300,000,000 firearms in circulation and an armed police.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 09:18 am
@spendius,
Quote:
You treated the DSK case in a way entirely referenced to your own experience with a woman. You were grinding an axe then and you are doing now.


My my we should give full credit to a woman word that is a known and constant liar including about one claimed gang rape that never happen and my not being willing to give her credit is because of my ex-wife?

Silly person you hardly need to have had a woman willing to bear false witness against you in your own past to dismissed this third world con-woman claims.

Next the claimed gold UK standard firearms laws have large problems with them and pointing out that is a valid means to disagree that the US should consider going down the same road.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 09:22 am
@spendius,
Sorry dear heart I stated in some areas of the UK........due to arm gangs the police had been force to patrol with submachine guns in hands.

I never claimed it was a wide spread situation however in a country who pride itself on it gun laws and police not needing to be arm such a situation does call for comments to say the least.

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 09:28 am
@BillRM,
What spendi said ...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 09:29 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
The nearest a mainland British police force ever came to being routinely armed was in 1884 in London, following the murder of two officers. The Metropolitan Police Commissioner of the day gave officers permission to carry revolvers on night patrols. This persisted until 1936 when guns were required to be kept in a locked cupboard at police stations.
Source: Home Office
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 09:40 am
@parados,
Quote:
If we only passed laws when they clearly prevented any offense from every happening we would pass no laws.


Quote:
A study last year in the Journal of Trauma-Injury Infection & Critical Care analyzed gun death statistics for 2003 from the World Health Organization Mortality Database. It found that 80 percent of all firearms deaths in 23 industrialized countries were in the United States. For women, the figure rose to 86 percent; for children 14 and younger, to 87 percent. Can anyone seriously claim our comparatively lax gun laws had nothing to do with such blood-drenched data? ...

Regulations, it is said, just won't work. Bad people will get guns somehow. But if that were true, why did the assault weapons ban work? If regulation is futile, why do we bother to regulate safety in so many other ways? We manage to prevent needless deaths through rules on refrigerators, automobiles and children's toys, yet politics block us from keeping up to date on the regulation of firearms, whose very purpose is to kill.

We're told no laws will end all human tragedies. That's true. And if the standard for a useful law is that it must end all tragedies and solve all problems, there is no point in passing any laws at all...

The polls still show considerable support for practical measures to curb gun violence. For example: a 2011 New York Times/CBS News poll found that 63 percent of Americans favor a ban on high-capacity magazines; just as many supported an assault weapons ban...
http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2012/jul/28/americans-gutless-on-guns/

BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 11:04 am
@firefly,
Quote:
why did the assault weapons ban work? If regulation is futile, why do we bother to regulate safety in so many other ways? We


How did the so call assault weapon ban work?

If memory serve me correctly the ban only apply to new manufacture rifles and before the ban went into effect people stock up with such weapons so anyone who wish to have such a weapon could legally buy one that was pre-ban.

The same thing apply to large magazines ban as magazines manufacture before the ban could be purchase legally also.

I am not a rifle person so I might be wrong but the above is my understanding of this so call ban.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 11:28 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
How did the so call assault weapon ban work?

Quote:
The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence examined the impact of the Assault Weapons Ban in its 2004 report, On Target: The Impact of the 1994 Federal Assault Weapon Act. Examining 1.4 million guns involved in crime, it determined that since the law was enacted, "assault weapons have made up only 1.61% of the guns ATF has traced to crime — a drop of 66% from the pre-ban rate."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban#Effect_on_crime
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 11:28 am
@firefly,
Question also Firefly are you ready yet to tell us how so call assualt weapons are anymore deadly then any other semi-auto rifle?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 11:32 am
@firefly,
Interesting as there was no real drop in the numbers of assault rifles in the county during the ban period and as far as I know anyone could buy such a weapon duing the so call ban legally if it was manufacture before the ban.

The law must be magical after all.

firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 11:40 am
Quote:
Dan Morain: Gun lobby blocks violence studies
By Dan Morain
Sunday, Jul. 29, 2012

There was nothing unusual about the University of Colorado's grant to its once-promising student, James E. Holmes.

If Holmes weren't accused of killing a dozen people and wounding 58, we'd never know that he received $21,600 for living costs while he pursued his doctorate in neuroscience. Nor was there anything odd about how the university paid for the stipend. The money came from an annual grant awarded by the National Institutes of Health.

But if the National Institutes of Health had granted money to a researcher delving into the reasons for mass shootings, there might have been trouble. In an Orwellian use of power politics, the gun lobby led by the National Rifle Association has in many instances muzzled federal agencies' ability to fund basic research into gun violence.

"This is a deliberate effort to keep evidence from being collected," said Dr. Garen Wintemute, a UC Davis Medical School professor and one of the few researchers in the nation who focuses on guns and gun violence. "It is one more way to prevent policy reform. It's a brilliant strategy."

Wintemute has been researching gun violence for three decades, beginning when he was a young emergency room physician treating gunshot victims. Over the years, he has published numerous studies related to guns. But private grants have funded most of that work since 1996, the year the National Rifle Association lobbied to restrict funding for research into gun violence.

The initial focus was on research funded by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. NRA lobbyist Chet Walker told a reporter for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution at the time that CDC-funded research was being used to promote gun control legislation, and that the CDC ought to stick "to fighting infectious disease and illness."

Congress since has been inserting language into the CDC's budgets barring grant money from being used for "any proposed, pending, or future requirement or restriction on any legal consumer product, including its sale or marketing, including but not limited to the advocacy or promotion of gun control."

"None of the funds made available in this title may be used, in whole or in part, to advocate or promote gun control," says the rider placed on the CDC's budget, and, as of this year, added to the National Institutes of Health's budget.

The CDC and NIH award billions in grants. They fund research into cancer, brain injury, tobacco use, obesity, AIDS, abortion, hearing loss, allergies, infectious diseases, back pain and virtually everything else related to human health. But gun violence is the one area that carries that specific language. The effect has been to limit federal funding into research that could be used to shape policy.

The National Academy of Sciences issued a report in 2004 raising basic questions: Should there be restrictions on who can possess and carry firearms? Should regulations differ for different types of firearms? Should gun purchases be delayed? Should there be restrictions on the number or types of firearms people can buy?

But the report noted "answers to some of the most pressing questions cannot be addressed with existing data and research methods, however well designed."

"If policymakers are to have a solid empirical and research base for decisions about firearms and violence, the federal government needs to support a systematic program of data collection and research that specifically addresses that issue," the report said.

The National Institute of Justice had filled the void. But in recent years, even that funding has declined, said Charles F. Wellford, a University of Maryland professor of criminology who headed the panel that produced the National Academy of Sciences report.

"Funding is sporadic and quite limited," Wellford said.

I sent an email to an NRA lobbyist asking about the organization's hand in limiting research funding, and received the NRA's stock answer to press inquiries since the mass shooting in Aurora, Colo.

"NRA is not doing interviews," spokeswoman Stephanie Samford wrote. "We believe that now is the time for families to grieve and for the community to heal. There will be an appropriate time down the road to engage in political and policy discussions."

How very sensitive and thoughtful – and hypocritical. The NRA would prefer to discuss the policy and politics of guns on its terms, as it will this fall.

On the day that Holmes was taken into custody, the NRA filed its latest campaign finance disclosure, showing it has $8.4 million ready for the November election. That helps explain its clout in Congress over federal research funding.

Rational people might wonder why Holmes or any civilian would need an AR-15 assault rifle. They might question how Holmes could outfit himself in military-style body armor, acquire a 100-round magazine, and amass 6,000 bullets without anyone in authority noticing.

People might wonder why anyone would kill 12 people in a movie theater, or kill six people and gravely wound a congresswoman outside a Safeway in Tucson, or shoot to death 32 people at a university in Virginia.

They might wonder why 30,000 people die from gun-related violence each year, clearly enough to constitute a health menace worthy of research.

Politics often comes down to a risk calculation. There aren't many lawmakers willing to pick a fight with the NRA over research. But, of course, the issue goes beyond research.

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/07/29/4668327/gun-lobby-blocks-violence-studies.html#storylink=cpy
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jul, 2012 11:42 am
@firefly,
From you own link......Lord you needed to look hard to find anything in that article that supported your position.

Did you think no one would look at the link you offer?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban#Effect_on_crime

Quote:
law did not ban the possession or sale of pre-existing "assault weapons" or previously factory standard magazines which had been legally redefined as "large capacity ammunition feeding devices".


Quote:
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention studied the "assault weapon" ban and other gun control schemes, and found "insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws reviewed for preventing violence."[4] A 2004 critical review of research on firearms by a National Research Council panel also noted that academic studies of the assault weapon ban "did not reveal any clear impacts on gun violence" and noted "due to the fact that the relative rarity with which the banned guns were used in crime before the ban ... the maximum potential effect of the ban on gun violence outcomes would be very small...."[5]


Quote:
In March 2004, Kristen Rand, the legislative director of the Violence Policy Center, criticized the soon-to-expire ban by stating, "The 1994 law in theory banned AK-47s, MAC-10s, UZIs, AR-15s and other 'assault weapons'. Yet the gun industry easily found ways around the law and most of these weapons are now sold in post-ban models virtually identical to the guns Congress sought to ban in 1994."[8]


The United States Department of Justice National Institute of Justice found should the ban be renewed, its effects on gun violence would likely be small, and perhaps too small for reliable measurement, because assault weapons are rarely used in gun crimes.[9]

In 2001, Koper and Roth of the Jerry Lee Center of Criminology, University of Pennsylvania, published a peer-reviewed paper called The Impact of the 1994 Federal Assault Weapon Ban on Gun Violence Outcomes: An Assessment of Multiple Outcome Measures and Some Lessons for Policy Evaluation. They found that:

"
Quote:
The ban may have contributed to a reduction in gun homicides, but a statistical power analysis of our model indicated that any likely effects from the ban will be very difficult to detect statistically for several more years. We found no evidence of reductions in multiple-victim gun homicides or multiple-gunshot wound victimizations. The findings should be treated cautiously due to the methodological difficulties of making a short-term assessment of the ban and because the ban's long-term effects could differ from the short-term influences revealed by this study."[10]
 

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