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Mass Shooting At Denver Batman Movie Premiere

 
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 01:21 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Another example is in listening to the EU leaders talk about how they are going to save the EU......sure their plans will require most/all the nations to change their constitutions so that the nations can be depowered and the EU powered up, no problem. They have complete faith in their ability to talk you chumps into what ever they want to do.


You're the one who still doesn't get it. This chump is British, we're not changing our constitutions at all, if anything we're taking powers back.

hawkeye10 wrote:
Try pulling that **** in America! It would never work.


It already has. That's why there's a United States Of America and not a United States of Europe.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 01:22 pm
@spendius,
I know, and if you don't think that's a good idea they call you nuts.

What about Bradley Wiggins eh? Vive la bloody difference.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 01:29 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:
And now we have an editorial blamine Obama and Romney for the shootings.

This editorial defines, for me, the anti gun nut crowd perfectly.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/blood-hands-obama-mitt-nra-article-1.1119049?pgno=1


Yes, the freedom haters are something else. As far as I'm concerned they should all be dragged off to Guantanamo and forgotten.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 01:31 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Another example is in listening to the EU leaders talk about how they are going to save the EU......sure their plans will require most/all the nations to change their constitutions so that the nations can be depowered and the EU powered up, no problem. They have complete faith in their ability to talk you chumps into what ever they want to do.


Well to be fair, why should Germany keep giving their money to Greece, Spain, and the like, if those other countries will not control their spending?



hawkeye10 wrote:
and on and on. Zero convictions for the bankers who caused the Great Recession....check. failure to fix the massively corrupt financial system after the Great Recession...check...............


The bankers didn't break any laws. The bankers instead used rampant demagogy to rally the people to change the laws and legalize questionable financial practices.

No laws broken means nothing to prosecute.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 01:36 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
oralloy wrote:
He also alerted them that his car was boobytrapped.

He was lying. His car was not.

And they knew that he had lied about the car being boobytrapped by the time they reached his apartment.

Had they not been cautious and checked the apartment before entering, and instead assumed that he was lying about the apartment as well as the car, things probably would not have gone well for them.


I still find it interesting that, after going to great lengths to booby-trap his apartment, that he warned the police he had done so.

I do wonder why he did that, why he warned them.


He did it to trick them into going into the apartment.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 01:37 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
I don't suppose that over those 20 years some additional restrictions have been put in place


Name them.


Quote:
1990
The Crime Control Act of 1990 (Public Law 101-647) bans manufacturing and importing semiautomatic assault weapons in the U.S. "Gun-free school zones" are established carrying specific penalties for violations.

1994
The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Public Law 103-159) imposes a five-day waiting period on the purchase of a handgun and requires that local law enforcement agencies conduct background checks on purchasers of handguns. (ATF's Brady Law web site.)

The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (Public Law 103-322) bans all sale, manufacture, importation, or possession of a number of specific types of assault weapons.

1997
The Supreme Court, in the case of Printz v. United States, declares the background check requirement of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act unconstitutional.

The Florida Supreme Court upholds a jury's $11.5 million verdict against Kmart for selling a gun to and intoxicated man who used the gun to shoot his estranged girlfriend.

Major American gun manufacturers voluntarily agree to include child safety trigger devices on all new handguns.

1998 - June
A Justice Department report indicates the blocking of some 69,000 handgun sales during 1977 while Brady Bill pre-sale background checks were required.

1998 - July
An amendment requiring a trigger lock mechanism to be included with every handgun sold in the U.S. is defeated in the Senate.

But, the Senate approves an amendment requiring gun dealers to have trigger locks available for sale and creating federal grants for gun safety and education programs.

1998 - October
New Orleans, LA becomes the first US city to file suit against gun makers, firearms trade associations, and gun dealers. The city's suit seeks recovery of costs attributed to gun-related violence.

1998 - November 12
Chicago, IL files a $433 million suit against local gun dealers and makers alleging that oversupplying local markets provided guns to criminals.

1998 - November 17
A negligence suite against gun maker Beretta brought by the family of a 14-year old boy killed by an other boy with a Beretta handgun is dismissed by a California jury.

1998 - November 30
Permanent provisions of the Brady Act go into effect. Gun dealers are now required to initiate a pre-sale criminal background check of all gun buyers through the newly created National Instant Criminal Background Check (NICS) computer system.

1998 - December 1
The NRA files suit in federal court attempting to block the FBI's collection of information on firearm buyers.

1998 - December 5
President Clinton announces that the instant background check system had prevented 400 illegal gun purchases. The claim is called "misleading" by the NRA.

1999 - January
Civil suits against gun makers seeking to recover costs of gun-related violence are filed in Bridgeport, Connecticut and Miami-Dade County, Florida.

1999 - May 20
By a 51-50 vote, with the tie-breaker vote cast by Vice President Gore, the Senate passes a bill requiring trigger locks on all newly manufactured handguns and extending waiting period and background check requirements to sales of firearms at gun shows.

1999 - August 24
The Los Angeles County, CA Board of Supervisors votes 3 - 2 to ban the the Great Western Gun Show, billed as the "world's largest gun show" from the Pomona, CA fairgrounds where the show had been held for the last 30 years. (Typical Gun Show Rules& Regulations)



http://usgovinfo.about.com/blguntime.htm
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 01:48 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
They have complete faith in their ability to talk you chumps into what ever they want to do.


Most of us don't mind in the least as we only ever vote for people who want to do what we want them to do. That's the job they apply for when they stand for election and we don't employ floor sweepers and then sweep the ******* floor ourselves.

I've been having a good look at France for the three weeks of the cycling race and that looks a lot better than the non-scripted scenes we often see of the USA. The joint the suspect lived in looked like a cardboard box from a distance and there's leaning telegraph poles all over the place. I watched a New York marathon once and I was shocked by some of the sordid backdrops I saw.

Stan Laurel was a chump don't forget. There is more to chumps than meets the eye. They have a proper sense of humour for a start. How can those who over-state themselves ever have a proper sense of humour.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 01:50 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Imagine being in a crowded pub izzy knowing that about half of the customers, both sexes, are packing. It would freak me out. Next plane to Blighty.


Most of the CC laws do not allow you to go legally into a bar/pub arm still......

We had a loophole hole in our gun laws that pre 1898 weapons are not cover by our gun laws so a pub/bar owner would wear a US 1860s civil war black power revolver in an open manner when taking funds from the bar to the drop box at the bank.

That revolver look like a small cannon and no one bother him in any manner over the years even if the area was in a high crime area where other business men and women had been rob and beaten.

Next story same bar/pub someone unwisely handed the barmaid a gun to look at and she ended up killing the bar cash register.

We all ended up on the floor when that gun shot rang out and I will not reveal how many of us had guns in our hands until we found out the reason for the gun shot.

Same bar had a real civil war field piece from time to time park out in front of the bar under the flag post flying the rebel flag.

If you visit the south Florida area of the US I will take you to that bar even if sadly it is not as wild as it once was.

For one damn thing the Florida wild life people removed and kill the pet alligator from the canal out in the back.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 02:02 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Imagine being in a crowded pub izzy knowing that about half of the customers, both sexes, are packing. It would freak me out. Next plane to Blighty.
BillRM wrote:


Most of the CC laws do not allow you to go legally into a bar/pub arm still......

We had a loophole hole in our gun laws that pre 1898 weapons are not cover by our gun laws so a pub/bar owner would wear a US 1860s civil war black power revolver in an open manner when taking funds from the bar to the drop box at the bank.

That revolver look like a small cannon and no one bother him in any manner over the years even if the area was in a high crime area where other business men and women had been rob and beaten.

Next story same bar/pub someone unwisely handed the barmaid a gun to look at and she ended up killing the bar cash register.

We all ended up on the floor when that gun shot rang out and I will not reveal how many of us had guns in our hands until we found out the reason for the gun shot.

Same bar had a real civil war field piece from time to time park out in front of the bar under the flag post flying the rebel flag.
I have been in environments wherein everyone obviously was well armed.
No one appeared to be ill-at-ease.
Y woud anyone feel less than serene?????
I don 't understand that. It makes no sense; ALIEN.





David
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 02:11 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
I have been in environments wherein everyone obviously was well armed.
No one appeared to be ill-at-ease.
Y woud anyone feel less than serene?????
I don 't understand that. It makes no sense.

.
Well to be fair alcohol and guns do not normally make a good mixed however there was never a shotting at that bar over the years or even a police call for service that t I am aware of.

One reason I think was that all of us was aware of the situation and any alcohol driven disagreements was address in a manner to calm the situation down by both the employees of the bar and the long term customers.

This is the only bar that on entering it I was once ask by the barmaid at the door if I happen to had a joint on me as she wish to offer it to two bikers to calm them down.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 02:20 pm
@BillRM,

DAVID wrote:
I have been in environments wherein everyone obviously was well armed.
No one appeared to be ill-at-ease.
Y woud anyone feel less than serene?????
I don 't understand that. It makes no sense; ALIEN.
BillRM wrote:
Well to be fair alcohol and guns do not normally make a good mix. . . .
I dunno, but I suspect
that anyone who wanted to cud leave.
The door usually works, most of the time.
The bars that I know are not traps.





David
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 02:40 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
I still find it interesting that, after going to great lengths to booby-trap his apartment, that he warned the police he had done so.

I do wonder why he did that, why he warned them.


We all wondered that ff. Do you think you wondering that was some brilliant stroke of insightful genius? Do you think it will go dark later on?
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 02:54 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
I have been in environments wherein everyone obviously was well armed.
No one appeared to be ill-at-ease.
Y woud anyone feel less than serene?????
I don 't understand that. It makes no sense; ALIEN.


Wha!!aat?? Being in a pub for a friendly drink and fearing that you might need lethal defence from the other customers. It is practically on the limit of "ill-at-ease" imo. I know it's cool to appear ill at ease so that will explain why no one does appear that way.

But how can they not be ill at ease. By jovial pub bonhomie standards I mean when they have gone to all the trouble and expense of carrying to defend themselves.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 03:03 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
We all wondered that ff. Do you think you wondering that was some brilliant stroke of insightful genius? Do you think it will go dark later on?


You are a nasty SOB but highly amusing and completely right. LOL.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 03:10 pm
@spendius,
Sorry but people carry weapons as a matter of course and doing so have nothing to do with any fear from the bar others customers.

The bar I been referring to as I said is in the middle of a high crime area where being arm is a good idea to say the least.

The wife of the owner of a restaurant a few blocks away was attack/rob/beaten/send to the hospital in the back restaurant parking lot as the arm security guard was guarding the front parking lot.

The customers of the bar and the restaurant are fine it is the human predators outside that is the concern.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 03:10 pm
@spendius,
Quote:

We all wondered that ff. Do you think you wondering that was some brilliant stroke of insightful genius?

No, I thought that perhaps someone else here might have some stroke of intelligent insight into why a person might do that.

I was obviously wrong about that.

There is very little thought going on here about any aspect of the actual case.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 03:23 pm
@firefly,
What insight is needed?

A very bright nut case who killed a lot of people at random and understanding his thought processes might be a good subject for a Phd paper on abnormal psychology but in everyday terms he is a nut who thinkings and actions surrounding the killings is not likely to made sense in everyday terms.

See the unabomber as another example of this.

However if you wish for a guess the act of the killings partly brought him more to sanity at least enough to change his plans to go out in a battle with police and having more victims at his apartment but that is just a guess.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 03:24 pm
@firefly,
Well-- it doesn't bear too much thinking about ff. The odd case might be put down to something unique but a trend suggests an undercurrent which only a few get up for.

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 03:30 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
in everyday terms he is a nut who thinkings and actions surrounding the killings is not likely to made sense in everyday terms.


I don't know about that. And, until relatively recently, he seems to have been functioning well--at least academically, and that did involve interacting with others.

Quote:
July 21, 2012
Don’t Jump to Conclusions About the Killer
By DAVE CULLEN

YOU’VE had 48 hours to reflect on the ghastly shooting in Colorado at a movie theater. You’ve been bombarded with “facts” and opinions about James Holmes’s motives. You have probably expressed your opinion on why he did it. You are probably wrong.

I learned that the hard way. In 1999 I lived in Denver and was part of the first wave of reporters to descend on Columbine High School the afternoon it was attacked. I ran with the journalistic pack that created the myths we are still living with. We created those myths for one reason: we were trying to answer the burning question of why, and we were trying to answer it way too soon. I spent 10 years studying Columbine, and we all know what happened there, right? Two outcast loners exacted revenge against the jocks for relentlessly bullying them.

Not one bit of that turned out to be true.

But the news media jumped to all those conclusions in the first 24 hours, so they are accepted by many people today as fact. The real story is a lot more disturbing. And instructive.

At every high school, college and school-safety conference I speak at, I hold up the journals left behind by the killers, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. The audience is shocked at what they learn. Perpetrators of mass murder are usually nothing like our conceptions of them. They are nothing like a vision of pure evil. They are complicated.

Mr. Harris kept a sort of journal for an entire year, focused largely on his plan to blow up his school and mow down survivors with high-powered rifles. Mr. Klebold kept a more traditional journal for two years, spewing a wild array of contradictory teen angst and deep depression, grappling seriously with suicide from the very first page.

Audiences are never surprised by the journal of Mr. Harris. It’s hate-hate-hate all the way through. He was a coldblooded psychopath, in the clinical use of that term. He had no empathy, no regard for human suffering or even human life.

Mr. Klebold’s journal is the revelation. Ten pages are consumed with drawings of giant fluffy hearts. Some fill entire pages, others dance about in happy clusters, with “I LOVE YOU” stenciled across. He was ferociously angry. He had one primary target for his anger. Not jocks, but himself. What a loathsome creature he found himself. No friends, no love, not a soul who cared about him or what became of his miserable life. None of that is objectively true. But that’s what he saw.

It’s a common high school malady, taken to extremes. Psychologists have a simple term for this state: depression. That surprises a lot of people. Depressives look sad, but that is the view from the outside. Of course they’re sad; they’ve probably gone their entire day getting berated relentlessly, by the single person in the world whose opinion they hold most dear — themselves.

Psychologists describe depression as anger turned inward. When that anger is somehow turned around, and projected outward, watch out.

Dylan Klebold was an extreme and rare case. A vast majority of depressives are a danger only to themselves. But it is equally true that of the tiny fraction of people who commit mass murder, most are not psychopaths like Eric Harris or deeply mentally ill like Seung-Hui Cho at Virginia Tech. Far more often, they are suicidal and deeply depressed. The Secret Service’s landmark study of school shooters in 2002 determined that 78 percent of those shooters had experienced suicidal thoughts or attempts before mass murder.

At this very moment, the police have probably gathered a great deal of evidence from James Holmes. They may well have a clear read on his motives right now. It is vital that they share this information fully with the public, but just as vital that they conceal much or all of it while they conduct their investigation. Testimony from friends, family and survivors of the massacre is also crucial, and witnesses are highly suggestible. Information must be withheld in the short run to safeguard corrupting their stories. Not for seven years, as in the case of the Columbine diaries, but perhaps several weeks.

Over the next several days, you will be hit with all sorts of evidence fragments suggesting one motive or another. Don’t believe any one detail. Mr. Holmes has already been described as a loner. Proceed with caution on that. Nearly every shooter gets tagged with that label, because the public is convinced that that’s the profile, and people barely acquainted with the gunman parrot it back to every journalist they encounter. The Secret Service report determined that it’s usually not true.

Resist the temptation to extrapolate details prematurely into a whole. Every time you begin to think we’re ready to answer the burning why, focus on the image of Dylan’s hearts. The killer is rarely who he seems.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/22/opinion/sunday/the-unknown-why-in-the-aurora-killings.html?hp

dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Jul, 2012 03:32 pm
@firefly,
I think this discussion of the phenomenon is interesting:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-22/forensic-psych-on-violent-minds/4146324


Can you access that, ff?

Edit


Tried again with proper URL!
 

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