Mass Shooting At Denver Batman Movie Premiere

@hawkeye10,

http://newshour.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/2012/07/20/gallup_blog_main_horizontal.jpg

The anti gun nuts need to face the fact that their cause has been losing ground for a long time

EDIT: Why is it I wonder that we keep getting issues here where the vocal majority of A2K rants on as if only the lunatics could disagree with them, but when I check the polling data I see that in America their side is either losing as it is here or closely matched with the opposing view as it is with gay marriage? It seems that the majority of vocal a2K'ers are delusional about where America is....and this is by far not the only time that I have pointed the delusion out.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

OK, my right to have them is expressed in the 2nd amendment of the US Constitution.
I dont need to argue it, because as long as its a right expressed in the Constitution, I dont care if anyone else objects to me owning them, its none of their businesss.

As to the wisdom of owning them, my rifle is used for deer hunting every year, I use it to put meat in my freezer and to provide meat for a few other people.
1 of my pistols is a presentation weapon, given to me as a gift. Yes, it fires but I leave it in its display case.
The other pistol is used for home defense and I also carry it with me, depending on where I am going.
I have a concealed weapons permit, I am trained in using it, and I am comfortable with it.

So, the wisdom of me owning them is because I want to own them. I do not threaten anyone with them, I do not flaunt them, and I do not force others to own one. However, I will also not allow you or anyone else to tell me that I shouldnt own them or that I cant own them.

2 Replies

@aidan,

aidan wrote:

oralloy wrote:
Freedom will never be outdated. And Americans will never give it up.

What do you think will happen?

The Supreme Court will continue to strike down unconstitutional gun laws. We are only a year or two from having them rule that people have the right to carry arms as they go about in public. They will also strike down the unconstitutional bans on assault weapons. And also New Jersey's unconstitutional ban on hollowpoint ammo.

aidan wrote:

Will the guns be replaced by leg irons or shackles?

No.

aidan wrote:

What are you talking about?

Freedom and civil rights.

aidan wrote:

You say I'm mistaking security for freedom - well you're equating guns with freedom.

Free people have the right to carry arms as they go about in public.

aidan wrote:

And by your definition, I HAVE known what it is to be free, and apparently now I'm not - although I can't tell the difference- so it aint that big a deal- having the right to carry a gun.

Freedom may not be a big deal elsewhere, but we here in the US will be keeping our freedom.

0 Replies

@mysteryman,

Quote:

I will also not allow you or anyone else to tell me that I shouldnt own them or that I cant own them.

I used to be an anti gun nut, but have shifted. I dont want to see anymore depowering of the citizen as a primary concern of mine now is the rampant abuse of the citizen at the hands of the state. THe citizens having possession of state of the art weapons now is a source of comfort to me. I also view the ridding of 300 million guns as not practical nor even possible, as any government which tried to take the guns away would be ended by revolution. The whole effort to outlaw guns is worse than useless, it is dangerous.

So very much has gone wrong with America, we have much bigger fish to fry. Increasingly this argument is like abortion, fruitless and dangerous in how much energy it absorbs which could be going for a productive purpose.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

I 100% agree with you, thats why I was curious as to what the definition of a "gun nut" was.

Guns are a part of the culture of the US, it is not possible to ban them or outlaw them.

2 Replies

@firefly,

firefly wrote:

Quote:
Aurora police Sgt. Cassidee Carlson says the booby trap trip wire at his apartment was "meant to kill," the first person who opened the door to the apartment.

The Aurora police chief says the trap was meant specifically to kill a police officer who might have opened the door.

"We sure as hell are angry," Chief Dan Oates said about the trap being aimed at officers.

What's interesting is why he alerted police to the fact his apartment was booby-trapped.

He also alerted them that his car was boobytrapped.

He was lying. His car was not.

And they knew that he had lied about the car being boobytrapped by the time they reached his apartment.

Had they not been cautious and checked the apartment before entering, and instead assumed that he was lying about the apartment as well as the car, things probably would not have gone well for them.

1 Reply

@firefly,

firefly wrote:

the gun nuts carrying on about their "freedom" and "rights".

Freedom and civil rights really bother you, don't they?

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

Quote:

Guns are a part of the culture of the US, it is not possible to ban them or outlaw them.

I recognise that to be probably true.

Also true because the armaments manufacturers("defence" contractors) are probably the biggest industry, and seem to have enough of the politicians in their pocket to ensure that no change will happen.

3 Replies

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

Define "gun nuts".
Do you believe that anyone that owns a gun is a "gun nut"? Or is that reserved for those people that own more than 1 gun?

I own 3 guns, 2 pistols and a rifle, do I qualify as a "gun nut" in your eyes?
Before I get seriously involved in this discussion, I need to have the terms defined and agreed upon.

"Gun nut" is a term used by freedom haters to deride all who oppose their anti-freedom agenda.

0 Replies

@mysteryman,

Quote:

Guns are a part of the culture of the US, it is not possible to ban them or outlaw them.

I am sure Obama is temped to jump on this to gin up the base and because he is a huge believer in government power and the corollary citizen weakness , but overall being pro gun outlaw is a loser politically. I think he will resist the urge.

1 Reply

And now we have an editorial blamine Obama and Romney for the shootings.

This editorial defines, for me, the anti gun nut crowd perfectly.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/blood-hands-obama-mitt-nra-article-1.1119049?pgno=1

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

1 of my pistols is a presentation weapon, given to me as a gift. Yes, it fires but I leave it in its display case.

I find it really difficult getting my head round the concept of being presented with a gun as opposed to a cup or certificate, or even a gold watch. That one sentence says so much about how alien most outsiders find American culture.

3 Replies

@McTag,

Quote:

Also true because the armaments manufacturers("defence" contractors) are probably the biggest industry, and seem to have enough of the politicians in their pocket to ensure that no change will happen.

WOW, you dont get it. Most politicians are massively in favor of government power, no matter what party, they would love to remove effective weapons from the citizens. The citizens keep them only by demanding to do so, in the face of government resistance.

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

Quote:

I find it really difficult getting my head round the concept of being presented with a gun as opposed to a cup or certificate, or even a gold watch. That one sentence says so much about how alien most outsiders find American culture.

Another example is in listening to the EU leaders talk about how they are going to save the EU......sure their plans will require most/all the nations to change their constitutions so that the nations can be depowered and the EU powered up, no problem. They have complete faith in their ability to talk you chumps into what ever they want to do.

Try pulling that **** in America! It would never work. We dont trust anyone anymore, and least of all our Government(with the military being a notable exception) . We have been lied to far too many times for that, as we watch our nation rot with our leaders being ineffective in stopping the rot at best and at worse encouraging it for personal benefit . Then there is also the whole issue of the abuse of the citizens at the hands of the state, largely facilitated through our thoroughly broken "justice" system. Then we could talk about the long running failure of the education system, which of course is run by the state mostly. and on and on. Zero convictions for the bankers who caused the Great Recession....check. failure to fix the massively corrupt financial system after the Great Recession...check...............

3 Replies

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

because he is a huge believer in government power and the corollary citizen weakness

But you have to consider, hawk, that government power and citizen weakness might be necessary. Both are nebulous terms anyway.

At what point would the empowerment of citizens and the weakening of the government be satisfying to you. And at that point would there be others who wished to go further and, if there were, would you oppose them?

0 Replies

@oralloy,

I still find it interesting that, after going to great lengths to booby-trap his apartment, that he warned the police he had done so.

I do wonder why he did that, why he warned them.

2 Replies

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

The anti gun nuts need to face the fact that their cause has been losing ground for a long time

EDIT: Why is it I wonder that we keep getting issues here where the vocal majority of A2K rants on as if only the lunatics could disagree with them, but when I check the polling data I see that in America their side is either losing as it is here or closely matched with the opposing view as it is with gay marriage? It seems that the majority of vocal a2K'ers are delusional about where America is....and this is by far not the only time that I have pointed the delusion out.

I don't suppose that over those 20 years some additional restrictions have been put in place?

You're really bad at interpreting data.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Imagine being in a crowded pub izzy knowing that about half of the customers, both sexes, are packing. It would freak me out. Next plane to Blighty.

2 Replies

@DrewDad,

Quote:

I don't suppose that over those 20 years some additional restrictions have been put in place

Name them.

1 Reply

@McTag,

McTag wrote:

mysteryman wrote:
Guns are a part of the culture of the US, it is not possible to ban them or outlaw them.

I recognise that to be probably true.

Also true because the armaments manufacturers("defence" contractors) are probably the biggest industry, and seem to have enough of the politicians in their pocket to ensure that no change will happen.

Arms manufacturers have nothing to do with it.

The politicians are in fear of the American voters, who will not tolerate further violations of their rights.

And the Supreme Court rules in support of the Constitution because that's their job.

0 Replies

Mass Shooting At Denver Batman Movie Premiere

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