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SAY NO TO MILK

 
 
the prince
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Jul, 2012 07:21 pm
@jcboy,
I missed ya too baby lol
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  3  
Reply Mon 9 Jul, 2012 07:26 pm
Another interesting comment, news to me (the bone broth business):


cana526Albany, CA
It's the casein protein in milk that is harmful to MANY (not all) people. However, if your body is okay with milk then drinking RAW WHOLE milk is better than drinking non-fat, 1% & 2% which are really processed food. Google how non-whole milk is made. Cheese and yogurt are fermented so that casein is eliminated. That's why people could eat yogurt but can't drink milk.

Worry about osteoporosis then drink homemade BONE (fish and grass-fed beef, chicken & pork) broth. This is what we all drank many years ago. Asian countries drink a lot of bone broth.

Lastly, avoid soy especially soy milk. 95% of soy is genetically modified and are rarely prepared correctly to eliminate the phytic acid. Soy milk is the newfangled drink that does more harm than good. Asians ate fermented soy food products. It's only been in the past 20 years that Asians started drinking soy milk which was heavily advertised as "healthy" food.

Folks, if you're unsure about milk then just give it up for about 4-6 days and see what happens. If you still feed lousy then give up WHEAT which is not the HEALTHY food we were led to believe.
July 8, 2012 at 12:37 p.m.
ossobuco
 
  3  
Reply Mon 9 Jul, 2012 07:30 pm
@ossobuco,
one more -


JRMWMplsNYT Pick
As a practicing physician who does not drink cow's milk and who routinely takes his patients off of cow's milk, I enjoyed your article. I also agree that water is by far the best liquid to drink.

One quibble: I disagree with your assertion that a person doesn't need Calcium and that for bone health they only need to exercise and to get Vitamin D from the sun. This is not true. Approximately 36% of healthy adult Americans are Vitamin D deficient, and that number jumps significantly in the northern states like mine (MN).

In addition, a person with adequate Vitamin D but not enough calcium will still develop Rickets (I see this in my practice).

Thus, if you remove cow's milk from your diet (which I wholeheartedly agree with) you must be very careful to monitor your intake of Vitamin D and Calcium containing foods, or take a multivitamin with Vitamin D and Calcium. (this is what I do, and what I recommend).

There is no product on Earth without side effects. You've shown the possible side effects of cow's milk in your article. But every other product also has them. Rice milk (which I drink), soy milk, almond milk, coconut water, juice, meat, etc. you name it!

Given that, we should not vilify milk, or deny its positives. It IS a great source of Calcium and Vitamin D (if added). It DOES have a lot of great health benefits. But they come with a cost. Removing milk then requires replacement of the lost health benefits of milk.

Good health to you all!
July 8, 2012 at 12:34 p.m.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Jul, 2012 07:47 pm
@ossobuco,
It isnt only casein, lactose intolerance is well documented in 75% of perople after they are weaned.
Raw milk contains lactoperoxidase and galactase, two enymes that break down lactose. It isnt in the milk structure but is carried by bacteria commensals that assist in lactose breakdown.

Casein has a very similar molecurlar structure to gluten and I wonder whether THAT intolerance i a double whammy (dairy and grain)
Joe Nation
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Jul, 2012 08:14 pm
@boomerang,
I don't I explained myself completely or clearly.
Let me ask you to name another mammal which drinks the milk of some other mammal? I understand we are omnivorous, but milk from the utters of others seems a bit extreme unless the Dairy Farmers and Milk Producers of America tell you how good it is for you. See?

We're always doing it.
Wolf Mother of Rome...for example.

But Bonobos don't drink the milk of any of the local deer.
Elephants aren't likely to be drawn to the breasts of Hippos.
Colts don't sniff around at the edge of the cows corral.

And
no mammalian creature drinks milk, even of their own kind, after reaching maturity.
None.
Milk is for babies and, except of Humans, that milk comes for one of their own species.

So, I stand by what I said. Drinking cows milk is an acceptable behavior for us, but we are the only mammal on the planet who does so and I find that odd.

Joe(snernp, snernp, snerp)Nation
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jul, 2012 08:17 pm
@Joe Nation,
We go a lot further than that, joe. Among the Mongols (and, I believe some other Central Asian peoples as well) there is a very popular, highly alcoholic drink called koumiss which is fermented mare's milk. Not even cows here, but, rather, horses.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jul, 2012 08:21 pm
@farmerman,
I'm aware it isn't only casein. I was naming the protein that Joe Nation was referring to, in response to him.

Sorry if I'm crabby, I just saw what JTT and Oralloy were writing about me on another thread.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Jul, 2012 08:27 pm
@Joe Nation,
would an animal its mothers milk into post-infancy?

Most mothers promote weaning as a way to accept another suitor."The milk dries up"
Cattle are artifically kept fresh by constant milking and often this milk is used to feed calves that are to be used as vealers.

Animal milks differ mostly by fat content and differing DNA, most everything else follows pretty much the same formulae. A seals milk is waaay fattier than , say, a horse but there are "Milk replacers" that artificially bump up fat content (msotly by butterfat and casein) and these can be fed to many fatty calves like seals or whales or otters.

WE can use mares milk to feed our sheep and cows milk also (but we just have to add about a prcent or two of butter to the warm mix.

Most milks pH's are around 6.5-6.7 (slightly acidic) and that keeps the fat in suspension we add a "boster" of vitamin B, D and dextrose
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Jul, 2012 08:40 pm
@Joe Nation,
There are many examples of inter-species nursing, here are 10 of them: http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/animals/news-10-incredible-stories-interspecies-nursing?image=0

Many infant animals are bottle fed the milk from other animals as well.

And, my adult cat and adult dog will never turn down milk when given the opportunity to have some.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  3  
Reply Mon 9 Jul, 2012 08:48 pm
An evolutionary biologist talks about milk:

Quote:
I am a super-powered mutant. For a given value of "super-powered" and "mutant," anyway: I am an adult human who can drink milk. This is unusual among mammals, but as those (in retrospect, somewhat creepy) PSAs that used to run during my Saturday morning cartoons said, milk has a variety of nutritional benefits, if you can digest it. Which of these is behind the evolution of adult milk digestion in humans? According to a new paper in this week's PLoS ONE, the benefit you get from drinking milk depends on where you live.

Originally, every human on Earth was lactose intolerant, like most mammals. That is, they lost the ability to digest lactose, the major sugar in milk, when their bodies stopped producing the necessary enzyme lactase after weaning. Then, some populations of humans domesticated milk-producing animals, and this seems to have generated strong natural selection [PDF] for a form of the lactase gene that remains active in adults.

In fact, milk-drinking populations in Europe and Africa have evolved "lactase persistence" independently [$-a]. This parallel evolution of a single trait motivates the new study by Gerbault et al. -- drinking milk might have different advantages for African pastoralists and Northern European farmers. Milk has two major dietary benefits:

It's generally nutritious as a source of protein and calories, and
Lactose can aid in calcium uptake in lieu of Vitamin D.

The main source of Vitamin D, for humans, is sun exposure -- the UVB rays in natural sunlight stimulate production of the vitamin. In Africa, close to the equator, it's easy to get plenty of direct sunlight; but in northern Europe, sunlight is less direct -- so it's harder to produce enough Vitamin D. (This is actually thought to be one reason for geographic differences in human skin color [$-a]: under lots of direct sunlight, dark skin is favored to minimize cancer risk; but under indirect sunlight, light skin is favored to allow more Vitamin D production.)

If the benefit of milk is calcium, not protein, then we would expect adult-active forms of the lactase-producing gene to be common in northern populations, and to decrease in frequency with decreasing latitude. This has been observed in a survey across Europe [$-a] -- but while the north-south pattern supports the calcium-benefit hypothesis, it is not conclusive evidence. This is because the same pattern could arise without any natural selection acting on the gene -- populations generally tend to be less genetically similar if they're farther away from each other, a phenomenon called isolation by distance, or IBD [PDF]. In fact, Gerbault et al. find that the north-south pattern of genetic similarity is replicated in genes that probably aren't under selection arising from life at high latitudes, suggesting that IBD, not selection, is responsible for the pattern in the lactase gene.



For a more conclusive test, Gerbault et al. developed computer simulations of the evolution of early European communities. By simulating populations' evolution with different strengths of selection acting on the lactase gene, they could estimate how probable a particular value of selection was given the present-day frequency of lactase persistence in the real population -- but also take into account the population genetic forces that create IBD. They found that in southern Europe, no natural selection was necessary to explain the present frequency of lactase persistence -- but in the north, selection coefficients as high as 1.8% were needed. That is, in northern Europe, lactase persistence is so common that the simulations only produced the observed frequency when people who could not drink milk as adults had, on average, 1.8% fewer children than those who could.

In contrast to Europe, African communities don't show the same gradual transition from frequent to rare lactase persistence, so IBD is less likely to explain the observed patterns. To explain the frequency of lactase persistence in African populations, the authors compared it to the frequency of pastoralism -- and, finding a strong positive correlation, they concluded that lactase persistence evolved in Africa because it allowed shepherds to derive more nutrition from the animals they kept.

In short, widespread lactase persistence evolved in Africa because milk is a good source of protein; but it seems to have evolved in Europe because milk is a good source of bone-building calcium. Human populations on separate continents arrived at the same evolutionary solution, but for slightly different reasons.


http://www.denimandtweed.com/2009/07/how-it-does-body-good-selective.html
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Jul, 2012 08:54 pm
@ossobuco,
JTT is a fuckin nutbag and I suggested that EVERYBODY just put him/her on ignore. The person needs some serious help and I dont think I wish to be an enabler.
Oralloy is often one sided in a discussion and he never seems to move off a particlualr credo. Hes like Georgeob except with a lot less refinemnet and respect for others. I wouldnt put him on ignore just remember his worldview and youll see.

BUT as for JTT, there isnt enough mone out there to support its thrapy bills
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Jul, 2012 09:15 pm
@farmerman,
Yeah.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2012 02:59 am
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
The first people to try oysters were the brave ones, in my book.


The specter of starvation will do wonderful things for that kind of courage. When Lt. Bligh reached the Great Barrier with his 20 men in an open boat, they landed on an island and immediately began eating--raw--any shellfish they could prise from the rocks and crack open.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  4  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2012 04:18 am
@boomerang,
Boomerang: Very interesting reading~An evolutionary biologist talks about milk: Thanks for posting it. The cat feeds the baby {fill in the blank} , not so much because that's babies and I am still talking about adult behavior.
The ease (and safety, if handled right) of milk makes sense to me as an evolutionary device.
Still, it's a cultural thing in many ways. I have a Chinese friend who loves oatmeal but wouldn't think of putting milk on it. Ptooey.

Milk from animals of any kind isn't part of the Asian diet.....how many cheeses are there in Switzerland? 100's.
How many cheeses were developed in China? hmmm. about one, maybe two. Please, pass the bean curd instead.

The question is then, if there are sources of 1) protein and 2) calcium easily available in our modern American/Euro/Aussie communities why would we persist in acting as if we needed milk in our diets as adults or even as healthy children past the age of weaning??

The next question is:
Is what is in the rectangular cartons at the grocery store really milk? Or is it as refined a product as we find over in the produce section, that thing that looks just like a tomato but tastes like the cardboard box it shipped it.

This is a fun and interesting thread.

Joe(btw~I love a little milk in my coffee, just for the taste)Nation



Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2012 04:30 am
Anybody who doesn't love milk is a commie.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2012 05:39 am
The entire food chain is getting a do-over. Milk is one of the victims I choose to consume, regardless.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2012 05:41 am
@edgarblythe,
I like a glass of malted milk. Plain white milk is only good on cereal.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2012 05:47 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Anybody who doesn't love milk is a commie.

I concur Admiral Set! Cool
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2012 06:01 am
Concur . . . does that mean to be a dog with someone else?
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jul, 2012 06:05 am
@Setanta,
I think you're thinking of concurry where one cooks an unshaved dog in curried milk. Embarrassed
0 Replies
 
 

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