SAY NO TO MILK

Same here -- don't love it, don't hate it. Always feel a bit guilty for not having more in terms of osteoporosis and such, so I was happy to see Bittman's article. Generally I never drink it "straight," as in just a glass of milk. I do have milk on my cereal though, and use it for this and that (baking mostly).

Sozlet likes it a lot more than I do, especially a certain locally-produced milk (hasn't been processed much I think).

Lots of people commenting in the article comments section are saying raw milk doesn't do that; that goat milk is better (something about small curds and digestion), and many other assertions pro and con. I'm still reading, there being over 600 comments.

One thing I remember reading, probably years ago now, is the catch 22 that skim milk, processed and having added vitamin d as most manufactured milk has, does not have its calcium readily absorbed because the vitamin d needs some fat to work, thus 2% milk being better as a calcium provider. Now -- I have no idea if this is true or just one more factoid I read once; I just happen to remember it.

My guy is a goats' milk aficionado, so I tried it hopefully. Same abdominal response - but thanks for the idea.

Just be careful, boyo, she's allergic to the milk protein in the milk, something else in the white stuff could be affecting you.

You use the same test that they taught us in survival training. Eat a little bit of something you think might be okay to eat but don't know for sure. Those berries, those nuts.....WAIT about 30 minutes and see if you are having any kind of reaction. No reaction, yea, eat up.....funny feeling in the back of your mouth or your belly is beating on the ceiling asking you to quiet down,,,,don't eat that anymore.

Try a 1/4 tsp on a cracker.

Joe(good luck)Nation
PS:
We end up using very little butter to cook now, mostly I use olive oil or a bit of spray canola oil. Or nothing at all.

Casein...

Thanks for sending me back to look over the comments.

Veeeerrrrrry interesting!

I particularly liked this one:

Um,,,yeast, salt flour......and water.....boss, you got to have some water in there.

Italian bread has a bit of olive oil in it when I make it, maybe that's why there is no salt. I've never thought about it.

All the other breads I make (whole wheat, oatmeal, Raisin) have honey or sugar in the water to make the yeasties bloom faster and rise higher, but not the French baguette or the Italian.

I don't know why the French buy their bread everyday. They don't eat until nearly 8PM, if they threw the dough together when they got home about six, it would be raised once, punched down, raised again, made into baguettes, water-brushed and baked by the time the meal was ready.

No milk in any of the breads, it's not missed.

Joe(pass the au jus )Nation

We like milk. Mr.Irish likes it more than I, but he'll only buy non-fat or skim. My mom comes over and says, "Er...your milk is blue!".

I keep almond milk and coconut milk in the pantry and use it in baking and for making ice-cream, and for desserts for lactose-intolerant guests.

I kinda figured i didn't need to tell people about the water. When i make bread to my own taste, i add butter and i use about half and half water and milk. But i can go with flour, water and yeast. I like to start bread with honey, too, although it's best to heat up the water with the honey in it so it dissolves evenly, then let it cool off so it won't kill the yeast.

Cow's milk was not commonly eaten by our ancestors. The milk they used was sheep's milk and goat's milk, Grazing cattle takes a lot of land, and it's just insane to try to gather enough fodder to keep them alive over the winter (in the economy of the middle ages, at least). So the calves who survived the spring would be gelded and then allowed to graze until Michaelmas, when all the livestock which they didn't intend to keep over the winter would be slaughered. Sheep and goats they kept both because they will graze in winter, even with snow on the ground, and because the sheep had an additional value, their wool. Cow's milk was only valued for the butter, which was, apparently preferred to the fat from sheep or goats. But sheep's cheese and goat's cheese were preferred.

I figure to each his own. Personally, I start each day with milk. I used to make a concoction of cereal, milk, nuts, berries, whatever I could manage to get. These days I usually put flax seeds, nuts, honey and milk in the blender and drink my breakfast. The milk I buy is whole organic cow milk. I have had milk at breakfast more often than not since late 1962, so if it is going to put me down it better hurry up.

I love milk. I drink it every day.

OK, than what do I do with my frosted flakes, eat them raw?

I forgot to mention that I usually throw some blueberries into the blender.

Drinking cow's milk is one of humankind's oddest behaviors. Vampire bats suck blood out of some creatures, but we drink the milk of cows (and, I can tell you, goats too---although sometimes the milk just smells something awful.)
What's really odd is that we do it, drink milk, well past our supposed need for it. (See notes above about breakfast rituals.)

I read a book about a year ago about the Six Beverages that Changed the World or some such. The author listed
Beer,
Wine,
Hard Spirits (rum and brandy),
Coffee,
Tea




and ...........Coca Cola.

No milk?? Except for the last one, I think humans drank those liquids because they wouldn't kill them like water would. Fermented liquids and liquids which have been boiled are safe for almost anyone to drink. Unboiled water will almost always have something in it that is waiting to kill you.

Think about that the next time you take a sip out of somebody's water bottle that they have already been sipping out of.......yum, enjoy the floating circus of bacteria and viruses.

Milk is interesting to think about. Humans must have discovered that if they drink the raw milk almost while it it still warm, it will be okay.

Left to sit in the sun for even an hour and milk can become a deadly as any other poison. Left a few hours more.....and you've got cheese. whoa.

Beer was easier on everyone. You could make lots of it and pay everybody on the Pyramid workcrew in jugs of it (with some nice crusty bread too.)

Joe(Okay. Now I'm thirsty.)Nation

Plenty of italian breads have salt, and plenty do not. Tuscan breads in particular often do not. The idea is what you dip the bread in is the source of flavor.
Lots of recipes in Carol Shield's Italian Bread book (one of my bibles).

Does it depend on the use of Olive Oil?

I don't know.

Joe(I do want some now)Nation

No.

Or, I'd better check, back later.

Apparently, in Japan, you can make bread out of anything.



Cycloptichorn

A quick look, pane toscano uses starter (yeast water flour) and dough, yeast water flour optional salt.

a pane toscano scuro (dark) has starter (yeast water flour) and dough, yeast water flour stone ground whole wheat flour - no salt

pane di Terni (Umbria) has yeast water biga (like starter), whole wheat pastry flour, ap flour, salt optional

calabrian bread has a zillion ingredients plus some olive oil and lard and salt

a ligurian bread, pane di chavari has yeast water olive paste ap flour salt black olives...

pane siciliano has yeast water olive oil malt syrup water again, durum semolina ap flour, salt for sure, sesame seeds

lots of variations by region and may village to village

pan bigio - can't tell from where, but "countryside" - has yeast water biga whole wheat flour ap flour salt -- no olive oil - that's one of my favorites


There are many more recipes . . .