Its Independence Day!! And Im about to get really obnoxious about it! LOL

That's the spirit. Please do.

All of this was so unnecessary, really. It goes back to the old saying: if you don't like a thread - stay out of it!!

Why the hell do people feel the need to beat up on a 14 year old one?

Well that's a2k for you. There are actually more than one thread here solely dedicated to people making a big deal out of nothing.

This thread has gotten completely out of hand.

It's just ridiculous.

Gracie, please stop in at the Wine Cellar. (I'll have something non-alcoholic for you so we won't get in trouble.) The Wine Cellar is designed to be a getaway from threads like this one has become. You'll like it there, I promise!

Nobody beat up on Gracie, CJ. Gracie played them like a violin.

One of the best posts ever to appear on A2K.

Joe(bravo)Nation

I respectfully disagree. (Notice, JTT, that I did say "respectfully.") I believe GracieGirl was quite sincere. I also believe her feelings got hurt.

Gracie handled herself quite well. Count me among her fans.

You don't have to keep qualifying your comments, WM. Is it okay to call you WM?




Count me in for all you've said. But Gracie did colbertize a lot of people and she played them beautifully.

And yes, she probably did get hurt. That hurts me too, but considering the smarts, the honesty this 14 year old has continually shown compared to the adults of A2K, I think a little hurt will only make her a much better person than she already is, which, as you might have gathered by now, is a pretty damn spectacular kid!

WOW.....JTT likes the kid A LOT after she goes on a rant about how great the current generation of Americans are. I think I need to sit down.

Your well known, dismal sense of assessment once more splashes onto the pages of A2K , Hawk.



I think that you need to think before you engage your grammar gray matter.

Yet another excellent example that writing, spelling, reading are artificial aspects of language.

Gracie is 14 and though she has known the grammar, the exceedingly complex grammar of her language since she was about five, spelling can still present a problem for her as well as adults.

This is no different than its/it's; their/there/they're; or any of the other similar sounding pairings that exist in English.

Spelling, artificial construct that it is, has to be memorized and memory sometimes fails, for all of us.

These "mistakes" are exceedingly common here at A2K and at other places where people write quickly. It's really not that big a deal. 'wreaks' could just as easily have been spelled 'reeks' and 'reeks' could just as easily been spelled 'wreaks', or 'reaks' or something with a completely different spelling.

I suspect that Snood was being snide rather than being honest for that is sometimes Snood's manner.

Well put !

That might be true for native speakers, but the rest of us has to memorize grammar - or at least part of it. I know when there is used and when they're using it incorrectly which is their problem. It's none of my business, but every dog has its days, right?
I have plenty of other grammar challenges though...

True, CJ, and that leads to 2nd language learners sounding foreign. It also leads to 2nd language learners being saddled with a bunch of rules that aren't rules.

Why do you think it is that super bright adult foreigners virtually always remain foreign sounding, forget for the moment accents/pronunciation, while little children, by age three show themselves to be grammatical geniuses and by five they have mastered virtually all the grammatical structure of their language.



I surmise you mean "when there is used and when they're using it incorrectly which is their problem".

These prescriptions are so predictable that I'm quite certain I know which prescription you speak of. If I'm correct, Jane, they not using it incorrectly.

There was also another one that I have explained to you twice - the use of "if" plus 'was' or subjunctive, 'were'.



Of course it's your business too, CJ. You have every right to expect that you, all students, will be given accurate information about language, do you not? Well, the simple fact is that you were not. Students today are not.

Gracie and your own daughter, are having their heads filled with nonsense about language. For them, it matters not at all. Except when it comes to folks like Frank/Roberta spreading these falsehoods far and wide, though Frank readily admits he is nowhere near knowledgeable enough to do so.

OK, I'm writing & posting this against my better judgment, really ... I have no desire to make enemies or upset people here. But it seems that expressing counter-views to the subject of this thread could well do that ... oh well, seems like that can't be helped.

But I want to say this. Before you thumb-downers get into action, at least hear me out. I'd really appreciate that.

First, can I say that most of the negative reactions to this thread have been a response to overt patriotism, not aimed at the thread instigator herself. That's certainly where I was coming from, in case you were wondering. It probably wouldn't have mattered who posted those first 3 pages of non-stop "freedom" propaganda (sorry, but that's how I saw those youtube videos) they were going to get a response. Perhaps if there had only been 3 or four of them they might have just been ignored as youthful exuberance? Anyway, thank goodness the thread instigator posted some considerably more thoughtful posts after those initial reactions. Progress.

Next, to give some of you some idea of why those early pages elicited some negative response, where some of us were coming from, please consider this. Some of our responses were from our own cultural perspectives. After all, that's where we live & that's where most of our experiences of patriotism & attitudes toward it, come from. Same as yours in the US. Our attitudes may be different because of where we live, OK?

So I am trying to imagine what sort of response would have been received to similar material if it was posted by a 14 year old in my own country.
Some of our recent experiences of overt patriotism have been deeply troubling, like the 2005 Cronulla riots, where "Australian patriots", draped in Australian flags (to show they were the "true blue aussies" ), clashed with middle eastern Australians over "ownership" of a Sydney beach. Participation in what occurred at Cronulla was fueled by radio "shock jocks" who actively encouraged more "patriots" to become involved, on their inciteful radio programs. Disgusting. So you see, we have our overt-the-top patriots/nationalists too. And they are very active. Sadly.
Anyway, just one example. I could provide quite a few more.
2005 Cronulla riots:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots

So what would my & others reactions be to a 14 year old who posted an Australian equivalent of the first few pages of this thread? .... on a reasonably intelligent internet forum largely frequented by adults?
Probably to encourage them to think a bit more about the "freedoms" they're so lucky to have, which millions of people all over the world, say nothing of some in their own country (like some asylum seekers, the homeless, many Australian aborigines ..) , aren't lucky enough to have. And probably to alert them to the fact that quite a few people would most likely find their patriotic posts .. well .. rather crass. Sorry, but that's how quite a few people would see them. Before even uglier responses where posted. I guess, to be protective of them, because of their age, same as some of you feel toward "Gracie".

Cronulla:


In a nutshell, I see overt patriotism/nationalism as ugly & divisive ... which encourages its adherents to be blinkered about other people's rights & attitudes, simply because they live in some "lesser" country, when taken to extremes ...

This nicely sums up my attitude toward patriotism. It's an extract from an Australia Day opinion piece written to an ABC blog :

Leo Tolstoy:

Why I won't be celebrating Australia Day:
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/43182.html

Just one last thing I'd like to say, because I feel pretty strongly about it ...
Applauding & thumbing-up posts from a 14 year old who's told a poster to "**** off" via material posted, because she doesn't like that poster's views, is not doing that 14 year old any favours at all.
Sorry, but but that's how I see it.

Thank you for you patience if you've read this entire post. Now you can thumb it down if you like.
.

No thumbs up or thumbs down, MsO, it's way too childish a procedure. It's only meant to increase the number of A2K participants which in turn, increases viewership which increases advertising which increases A2K revenues.

But of course, there's nothing inherently wrong with the profit motive. It's just juvenile to use it.

Having said that, you are absolutely correct about how deadly blind patriotism is.

Look at what the US has done to how many millions of innocent people around the world.

Look at what the US has done to how many poor countries around the world.

It seems eminently sensible [hold that thought for a moment] that a country that has just come off invading two sovereign nations, causing the death of untold numbers [they don't care about the numbers of dead and injured but remember, they tell all that they do this to save the oppressed], destroying those countries' infrastructure, leaving all manner of WMD spread over those lands, committing gross acts of torture, committing a long list of war crimes, ... , would show a little more humility.

C'est la vie!

Msolga, thank you for a very well put, apposite and timely post.

JTT, likewise. I take back what I said about you being an idiot.

Agreed Felix, I wonder how this sort of Little England nonsense would go down over the pond?




























I find it all a bit sickening, and I'm English. Maybe you lovely Americans might now see why us non-Americans got a bit pissed off.

What a pack of self-righteous, hateful, sourpuss, killjoy sons of bitches. Oh how very mature and adult you all are to beat up on an adolescent who just wanted to have some harmless fun. You lot are pathetic.