11
   

Should the General Education Diploma (GED) be eliminated?

 
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2012 08:46 am
I had a little time this morning so I started digging around, trying to find out what might take the place of the GED for kids that are falling behind in school, and I learned about "credit recovery" programs.

Next I tried to find out what Diane Ravitch might have to say about credit recovery. I wasn't surprised that she had quite a bit to say about it (emphasis mine):

Quote:
....many districts are devising ways to raise their graduation rates that have nothing to do with thinking and learning. A prime suspect is credit recovery. I became suspicious when I first learned about credit recovery several years ago. That is when I discovered that some high schools were allowing students who had failed a course to obtain full credit by submitting an essay or a project that was written without any oversight or attending a workshop for several days.

It turns out that the academic fraud goes even deeper than I suspected.

......I saw course credit awarded for "courses" that may be completed in as little as three hours. Three hours of test-taking to get credit for a full semester or even a year! I saw assessments that consisted exclusively of simplistic multiple-choice or true-false questions. I saw responses of dubious value that were "graded" by machines. The level of difficulty of these exams is shockingly low.

But this fraud works. It is profitable. It is a win-win: The student gets credit, the corporation makes money, the school raises its graduation rate, the city leaders celebrate, and the media reports the good news. And the graduation rate means nothing, and the students get an empty "education."

......This is academic fraud. These students are not getting an education. They are going through an exercise to pretend that they got an education so that they can graduate. The district will boast that its graduation rate is going up and up. Media figures will say that "education reform" is working. Big-name officials will exchange high-fives. And many thousands of young people will get a diploma that signifies nothing.


Full article: http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/Bridging-Differences/2012/06/academic_fraud_does_anyone_car.html

I haven't had time to look yet but I'm willing to bet that Pearson (who, by the way, just acquired the GED a few months ago) is profiting off credit recovery programs or they will be soon.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2012 08:55 am
@boomerang,
Yep!

Quote:
Big national online education companies are trying to capitalize on the interest in credit recovery. Plato, Pearson, Apex and Kaplan all are competing for a share of this burgeoning market, and they charge anywhere from $175 to $1,200 per student per credit.

At stake are multimillion-dollar contracts with large urban districts like Houston and New York City. Plato alone has a two-year, $4.2-million contract with New York City schools, according to city data. Districts have defended such expenditures by saying credit recovery programs are a bargain compared to the costs associated with students who drop out of school.


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/guest-bloggers/are-ed-credit-recovery-program.html
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2012 09:02 am
How much money are we talking about?

Here's an article from 2010: http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/general/2010-11-25-school-credit-recovery_N.htm

Quote:
The self-paced classes represent one of the fastest growing segments of the $2 billion digital learning market for elementary and secondary students. Forty-six states and the District of Columbia allow students to take classes, including credit recovery, online, says Susan Patrick, president of the Virginia-based International Association for K-12 Online Learning (iNacol).

She estimates that at least 250,000 students are taking credit-recovery classes online.

......

Gregg Levin, vice president of Aventa Learning, which supplies credit-recovery classes to 31 cities, said the company's revenues have grown more than eightfold in the last two school years.

Other providers include education business giants Pearson and Kaplan, which operates as a subsidiary of The Washington Post Co. Karl Gustafson, Pearson's digital learning vice president, predicts subsidiary NovaNet will see double-digit enrollment growth for the coming year.

Plato Learning, which was recently purchased by Chicago-based private-equity firm Thoma Bravo for $143 million, served twice as many students in 2010 as in 2009, says Mary Schneider, director of marketing. The majority are in credit-recovery classes. Former Plato chairman and CEO John Murray values the online credit-recovery business at $500 million. Murray is now chairman and CEO of AdvancePath Academics, a Virginia provider of alternative education solutions for at-risk high school students. Like iNacol's Patrick, he estimates 250,000 students are enrolled in online credit-recovery classes.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2012 11:22 am
The link earlier in this thread to one of Heckman's more recent studies is for a paper from 2010.

I can't find a real date for when online credit recover programs began but all of the articles started popping up in 2010.

It is all too new to really make any assumptions but I have to wonder about the whole "soft skills" thing in light of this. Will students getting diplomas under credit recovery programs have the same problems he says show up in the GED population? Will a diploma become as meaningless as he thinks the GED is now?

And, by the way, people who get GEDs in Oregon are not counted as "graduates", they're considered "completers":

Quote:
A student who earns a GED is reported as a “completer”, not a graduate and
not a dropout. In order for a district to count a student as a GED “completer”
and not a dropout, the district must have evidence. If evidence is not provided,
the student will count as a dropout


www.ode.state.or.us/teachlearn/certificates/gedinschool/gedqanda.pdf
aspvenom
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2012 11:53 am
@boomerang,
"Will a diploma become as meaningless as he thinks the GED is now?"

I think with this crummy economy, you have a better luck with getting an associates degree and getting a decent job. The job expectations are rising. I have a couple friends who graduated high school, and then put off college. They are still working in fast food restaurants. In these times, depending on where you live, high school or GED diploma is not helpful, unless you're creative enough to rise above this situation.

edit: That said, something not helpful with the current circumstances doesn't make it meaningless.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2012 04:02 pm
@aspvenom,
http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/homework-class-test-school-of-fail-this-is-why-we-go-to-school.jpg
aspvenom
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jun, 2012 06:00 pm
@DrewDad,
Whatever makes people happy.
I guess the moral of the story is learning is important than education.

"The greater our knowledge increases the more our ignorance unfolds."
-John F. Kennedy
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2012 09:24 am
@boomerang,
I can see a useful niche for credit recovery programs, but only if these are standardized programs monitored and offered on at least a state, rather than local, level and only if completion of such programs is reflective of a grade-level comprehension of the material. Obviously, that sort of monitoring and oversight and rigorous evaluation isn't going on yet, and that's where the problem is.

For students who lack only a few credits to graduate with a regular diploma, credit recovery might help to prevent drop-outs and increase graduation rate, but only if such a program has the standards and safeguards I've already mentioned, and only if the government carefully evaluates the effectiveness and educational validity of such programs when offered by for-profit private companies.

I'm much more enthusiastic about self-paced learning programs where the student can progress at their own rate, based on their mastery of the material. I think that's the best way to learn, and it might help to keep both struggling students and bright students more engaged with the material because it will always be appropriate to their level.

The whole idea of online learning opens up a lot of exciting possibilities in terms of formal education, and, on a high school level, I can see where it might even help students to acquire some of those non-cognitive abilities--like self-discipline, persistence, frustration tolerance, motivation, etc. that are important to future success, if the courses are self-paced, and if the programs are sufficiently interesting and interactive and offer enough positive feedback and "rewards" to involve students who might be disengaged in a classroom setting. It is certainly a useful adjunct to the classroom teacher and classroom experience in terms of helping to lessen the drop-out rate.

Formal credentials, like a high school diploma or GED are important as markers of a level of achievement, but we have to insure that more of the population will have achieved the literacy level, and the mastery of course material level, to justify acquiring those credentials. Just trying to increase graduation rates or "completion" rates doesn't mean much if these don't represent real levels of educational attainment. We have to find more inventive and involving and reliable ways of engaging "at risk" and disengaged students, and not just push them through the system or watch them drop out--but these methods must also offer a real first rate education and not just a certificate to boost a school system's ratings and federal funding.

I don't think I'm in favor of the in-school GED programs--I think schools should be expected to prepare students for regular diplomas, and they should focus on that job, without offering easier or less rigorous options. The GED should be retained as a "second chance" option for those who have already dropped out of school, as was the original intention.
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2012 10:02 am
@firefly,
I think it was the Ravitch article that pointed out that we've always had credit recovery programs -- we used to call it summer school and it was pretty effective. I know that when I was in school the threat of summer school was enough to get most kids to finish their schoolwork. NOBODY wanted to go to summer school.

I think that the kids that are getting shuttled off to GED programs and credit recovery classes are not just a credit or two behind though. I recall reading that they were for kids who were at least one year behind their cohorts.

The GED is far from perfect but from what I've read credit recovery, as it's done now, is even worse. Kids who are getting their diploma through these programs are really just getting a meaningless piece of paper too, but it's one that appears to have value, like counterfeit money.

I have some real reservations about online learning -- the same objections that I have to homeschooling -- that there just isn't enough diversity of thought. I had an interesting conversation with another parent the other day about religious schools. I said I'd consider sending Mo to one (particular school) because, even though we aren't religious, I think it's important for kids to be exposed to religion in order to learn to think critically about religion. She is a very religious person who won't send her son to this school because she thinks he needs to be exposed to people who don't think/believe the same things they do. Disagreeing with people is a great way to learn. I don't know if kids get that with online learning.

I do like Sal Khan's "flip the classroom" ideas but because I hate the whole idea of homework they don't quite work for me either.

I very much like the idea of letting kids work at their own pace but then we get back to the question of how long are we willing to let a student attend public school? Until they're 20? 25?
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2012 11:18 am
@boomerang,
Quote:
I have some real reservations about online learning -- the same objections that I have to homeschooling -- that there just isn't enough diversity of thought.

Not all high school subjects require diversity of thought--Algebra and Geometry, for instance. Nor would online learning replace classroom instruction, it can be an adjunct or supplement. It can even be used in a classroom setting, and some schools do that now.

My objection to unsupervised online learning in the home is not being sure of the identity of the person using the computer. How can you know that a particular student, and not someone else, is actually completing the course-work and assignments?

The problem is mainly with those high school students, from disadvantaged or high risk groups, who are so disinterested, or so disengaged, or so beset with other problems, that they don't focus on the work, or complete it, or even show up in class regularly, and as they fall further and further behind, the risk they will drop out becomes greater. Alternative schools, or programs like the YABC and Transfer Schools in NYC, seem like better solutions than in-school GED tracks because they provide more comprehensive resources and initiatives to address the multitude of problems, both in school and outside of school, these students may be struggling with.

These kids don't just need to get a diploma, they also need a comprehensive safety net to keep them from dropping out and to help prepare them for the transition into the adult world of work, or to enable them to get continuing higher education or job training. Pushing them into a GED track, so some of them can obtain a credential, seems to address too small an aspect of the problem of whether they are adequately prepared to function once they are out of school. If they aren't adequately prepared, they will wind up being a burden and a drain on society, so trying to prevent that is a worthwhile investment in the future.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2012 11:38 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Alternative schools, or programs like the YABC and Transfer Schools in NYC, seem like better solutions than in-school GED tracks because they provide more comprehensive resources and initiatives to address the multitude of problems, both in school and outside of school, these students may be struggling with.


That's how the Oregon GED programs are run.
Quote:

The single biggest factor behind the sky-high dropout rate? Oregon's largest school district shuffles struggling students by the hundreds into a network of low-profile, mostly unaccountable alternative schools. There, out of sight of their former teachers, principals and classmates, at least 80 percent drop out.

That disconnect between the district's nine big high schools and the fate of students who falter and leave sabotages a fix. Because the most challenging students founder off-site -- while nearly 90 percent of those who stay get a diploma -- the big high schools are blind to the need for improvement. The illusion of success keeps them from adopting practices that districts with similar students use to achieve far higher graduation rates.


http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/06/secret_route_to_dropping_out.html

So alternative schools aren't a fix at all.

Some of them are very, very good and others are terrible. They're all private schools operated with public funds, much like many charter schools.

A lot of the alternative schools offer diplomas here though. Getting into one is terribly difficult.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 22 Jun, 2012 08:13 pm
@boomerang,
Quote:
So alternative schools aren't a fix at all.

Certainly not in Portland.

That report really paints a dismal, and disgraceful, picture of what's going on with those schools. Perhaps publicizing what's going on in Portland will lead to some corrective action. One can hope...

On a national level, the alternative schools that are part of the public school system, rather than being privately run, and that, therefore, operate with greater oversight and accountability, might have better success. Certainly, if those schools weren't being effective in decreasing the drop-out rate, they'd be subject to more scrutiny and re-evaluation of methods than might be the case with privately run schools--they have fewer ways to pass the buck.

Some feel alternative schools may even provide the model for high schools in the future.
http://horizon.unc.edu/projects/HSJ/Knutson.html







boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2012 08:55 am
@firefly,

Quote:
On a national level, the alternative schools that are part of the public school system, rather than being privately run


Are you sure about that? I'm not so sure. I might pick a state and investigate but I don't think it's true that the alternative schools (and "public" charter schools) are publicly run. It's really murky and it's hard to dig out who might really be in charge of any given school listed as a public school.

I'm not against alternative schools, I'm trying to get Mo into one (he's been wait listed). The school is listed as a public school and it appears on the Portland Public Schools website as a public school. But it is a private school.

You can see a list of them here: http://www.pps.k12.or.us/departments/education-options/index.htm (click on the link that reads For a listing of PPS Education Options programs click here).

These all appear to be public schools but none of them are.

I don't think this is the case only in Oregon.



firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2012 11:10 am
@boomerang,
I believe NYC has publicly run alternative schools, which may be one reason they have shown positive results--they receive quite rigorous oversight from the NYC schools chancellor.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2010/1007.hammond.html

Charter schools and alternative schools fall into different categories.

This paper gives statistics on both district run/administered alternative schools and those run by a private entity contracted by the district.
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2010/2010026.pdf

So, in some places, I think, the alternative schools are directly run and administrated by the school district, in other places the alternative schools are contracted out. But I agree with you--it is very often hard to dig out the info on who is actually running the alternative school.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2012 07:05 pm
@firefly,
I'll see what I can find out about the NY alternative schools....
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jun, 2012 08:14 pm
@boomerang,
I think Chicago also has publicly run alternative schools. They list "contract" schools separately.

You have to hunt by city not by state.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2012 09:53 am
Things are starting to get noisy around here this morning so I want to leave myself some notes...

New York and several other states operate under BOCES -- Board of Co-operative Education Services. Although BOCES are public agencies, operating on public funds, it gets murky pretty fast....

The comments left here are really interesting:

http://blog.timesunion.com/schools/how-much-do-boces-actually-save/1562/

Quote:
Boards of Cooperative Education Services are withholding tens of millions of taxpayer dollars at a time when school districts are making unprecedented staffing cuts, according to a new audit by Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli.

The audit of six BOCES across the state found that they had $79 million in unauthorized or overfunded reserve funds.

Read more: http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/State-audit-BOCES-hefty-rainy-day-funds-hurt-578091.php#ixzz1yj65mR5z

.......

The audit found the BOCES collectively held $26.3 million in eight reserves that the organizations were not authorized to establish. Another $52.7 million was held in 19 reserves that BOCES could not document a need for by means of liability calculations or plans for use.

The audit said BOCES failed to inform participating school districts as to why the funds were needed or what they would be used for.


http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/State-audit-BOCES-hefty-rainy-day-funds-hurt-578091.php

Quote:
“The board and BOCES officials have created a work environment where there is an inappropriate blending of employees’ public responsibilities and their private business interests,” Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli wrote. His auditors found that the private and public work hours of the BOCES administrators could not be distinguished.

Auditors cited the case of Matthew Fletcher, BOCES’ assistant superintendent for labor negotiations, who worked out a barter arrangement with the district. In exchange for Fletcher providing legal services to the district at no charge, BOCES allowed him to represent school districts for his private law practice out of his BOCES office, the audit said. Fletcher makes $152,527 a year in his BOCES job.


http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/07/boces_bosses_mixed_government.html
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2012 10:32 am
@boomerang,
BOCES really is unrelated to alternative high schools (which are designed to prevent drop-outs). BOCES is mainly concerned with vocational training, and some disability services, which are offered in a geographical area, like a county, rather than confined to a particular school district--they are extension services that go beyond what individual districts might offer.
Here's one in Nassau County on Long Island.
http://www.nassauboces.org/site/default.aspx?PageID=1

Aternative high schools are controlled by school districts/municipalities not by states. In New York City, for instance, they are coordinated and administered by District 79.
http://schools.nyc.gov/Offices/District79/default.htm

These are the alternative schools/programs in NYC designed to help high school students graduate--YABC, Transfer Schools, etc..
http://schools.nyc.gov/ChoicesEnrollment/AlternativesHS/default.htm

http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/B581CC4F-678B-4884-B650-B107E0980E27/0/AWTGDirectory201112.pdf

boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2012 10:47 am
@firefly,
I think they do run alternative schools:

http://www.nysaea.us/aea_program.html
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Jun, 2012 10:52 am
http://www.nysut.org/newyorkteacher_15362.htm

http://www.onboces.org/information.cfm
0 Replies
 
 

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