revelette
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 01:40 pm
Quote:
Mitt Romney yesterday floated a proposal to cap the amount of tax deductions that an individual can take at $17,000, in response to criticisms that his plan would cut taxes for the rich while raising them on the middle class. As ABC News reported:


“As an option you could say everybody’s going to get up to a $17,000 deduction; and you could use your charitable deduction, your home mortgage deduction, or others – your healthcare deduction. And you can fill that bucket, if you will, that $17,000 bucket that way,” he said during a visit with Denver’s FOX31. “And higher income people might have a lower number.”

The idea is not fully fleshed out and leaves a lot of questions unanswered, including whether or not the health care exclusion will be included (which saved the average family about $3,800 in 2006). But while including a cap on deductions would certainly cause Romney’s tax plan to raise more revenue, it still doesn’t make his plan add up.

Romney has laid out three criteria for his tax plan: it will cut income tax rates by 20 percent, not add to the deficit, and not raise taxes on the middle class. However, as an analysis by the Tax Policy Center shows, Romney can’t achieve all of those goals. Without ceding to a smaller rate reduction, Romney must either add to the deficit or raise taxes on the middle class.

Romney’s new idea doesn’t change that basic equation. The Tax Policy Center analysis, after all, assumed that Romney eliminated all tax deductions for the wealthy. Capping deductions at $17,000 obviously preserves $17,000 (or whatever number Romney settles upon) worth of deductions for the rich, meaning he will either have to expand the deficit or raise taxes elsewhere to make his tax plan reality.

“It goes back to the same problem that we’ve raised,” TPC’s Howard Gleckman told Talking Points Memo. “He’s promised all these things and he can’t do them all.

As Citizens for Tax Justice noted, “there is simply no way to Romney could fill in the details of his tax plan in a way that will not result in huge tax cuts for the very rich.” A cap on deductions may be a good idea in the abstract, but it doesn’t make Romney’s plan add up.


source
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 01:44 pm
@revelette,
It only proves Romney doesn't understand the tax codes, and how individuals and joint returns with the same income has different deductions and tax liabilities.

He's sticking his nose into an area that belongs in this "blind" trust.

He's still playing the game of "you are too dumb to understand what I'm trying to do."
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 01:49 pm
http://elections.gmu.edu/voter_turnout.htm

(dropping this off to spend more time with later)
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 01:55 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Ive made a better living than I ever deserved to and I have no idea what goes with the tax code. DOes that mean I should run for president?

0 Replies
 
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 02:03 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
Ryan on tape saying 70% of Americans want the American dream and 30% want a welfare state.


Just reinforces the stereotype that these rich bastards think that somehow they are better than those that need some help. Whatever happened to the compassionate conservative ? Those 30% are there by choice ? Disgusting. There are surely some people who game the system, at both ends of the wealth spectrum, but to dismiss so many Americans just shows their arrogance.

My father lived the American Dream. Born in Steubenville Ohio, a steel town, lost his father when my dad was 6. Grew up in a county home. Went to war. Came back and joined the Ohio Highway patrol to get out of the steel mill. First home owner in his family. Solid middle class family. Not all that unusual of a story. I was the first in the family to get a college education, thanks to the opportunities I got from my father. Neither one of us expected the govt to provide our support. At some point in our life we both had some help from the govt. I am positive we have paid a lot more in taxes than we received.

It pisses me off to hear Ryan talk about 30% of the American population like they were poor by choice and enjoy living off of the govt.

He's a numbers guy? Lets analyze the subsidies given to large corporations and the resulting taxes from them. Analyze the money spent on defense spending and what we actually need.


revelette
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 02:08 pm
@IRFRANK,
I am wondering what survey after survey had 30% of the people saying they want "their welfare" state rather than the "American dream."

Quote:
"Today, 70 percent of Americans get more benefits from the federal government in dollar value than they pay back in taxes," Ryan said. "So you could argue that we're already past that [moral] tipping point. The good news is survey after survey, poll after poll, still shows that we are a center-right 70-30 country. Seventy percent of Americans want the American dream. They believe in the American idea. Only 30 percent want their welfare state. What that tells us is at least half of those people who are currently in that category are there not of their wish or their will."


source
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 02:14 pm
@IRFRANK,
All the conservative goals of several decades ago have all disappeared; it makes me wonder how conservatives can remain conservatives when their policies have reversed 180 degrees from that period when conservatism meant a) small government, b) no government intrusion into private lives, c) compassionate conservatism, d) self-sufficiency - but help those who cannot help themselves, and e) let all Americans participate in our governance.

Looks like only extremists have stayed in their party; they lie, want to control other people's lives, vote "no" to most of Obama's legislation, voter suppression, take over women's bodies/vaginas, belittle minorities, they hate all Muslims *(maybe only 99%), don't fund our infrastructure and schools, but keep supporting all wars and our defense department over taking care of our own, and believe that 47% of Americans are freeloaders.

The conversion took a few years, but this last four years have been the worst.

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 02:15 pm
@revelette,
It might be that the 30% are seniors collecting social security and MediCare benefits, soldiers on retirement or disability pay, and food programs for all children.
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 02:19 pm
@revelette,
Quote:
What that tells us is at least half of those people who are currently in that category are there not of their wish or their will."


So half of those on welfare are there by choice? BS

Define welfare. Are the children eating school lunches there by choice?

Americans don't want welfare, they want opportunities.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 02:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
From Yahoo News (their headline belies/misleads what is "really" happening).

Quote:
Forty-five percent of Americans say Obama failed on jobs, Esquire/Yahoo News poll finds
By Brendan James | Yahoo! News – 5 hrs ago

When President Barack Obama and challenger Mitt Romney meet in Denver tonight for the first of three debates, the conversation will almost certainly turn to Obama's economic performance in the White House. It is a subject on which opinions are neatly divided. According to a recent Esquire/Yahoo! News poll, 45 percent of Americans fault the president for mismanaging job creation.
A roughly equal number responded that Obama made the most of a bad economic situation, with 49 percent of the general population responding that the chief executive did "as well as he could." The poll results have a margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points among the general population.


Guess which one the conservatives will "remember?"
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 03:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
That "did as well as he could" feeds into the Romney narrative for the 49% tape that Obama did as well as he could be "he" simply wasn't up to the task, not that the task wasn't achievable by "anyone".
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 03:29 pm
@JPB,
Only those who doesn't know how the republican House voted, and what McConnell said about making Obama a one term president; most Americans already blame Bush for our current problems.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 04:23 pm
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/10/one-last-encore-great-statistical-tie-fallacy

If you want to know who's ahead, there are now loads of sites that aggregate multiple polls in various ways to provide estimates with far less margin of error than any single poll. If Pollster or RCP says that Obama is ahead by three points, then the odds are that he really is ahead by three points. There's still plenty of room for various kinds of error in these poll-of-polls averages, but pure sample error isn't really one of them any more.

For the record, as of today Pollster has Obama ahead by 4.3%; RCP has Obama ahead by 4.0%; Sam Wang's meta-margin has Obama ahead by 5.06%; and Nate Silver has Obama ahead by 3.9%. I think it's pretty safe to say that, at this moment in time, Obama is comfortably ahead.
IRFRANK
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 06:02 pm
@snood,
Good but not comfortable. Wait and see the attack ads this month.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 06:47 pm
@IRFRANK,
I hear you, but just curious... If being 3-4 points ahead on every aggregate poll there is, is not comfortable, what margin would make you relax?

(by the way, I think I'd need about 10-15 pts ahead to relax, so my question is purely an academic exercise)
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 07:24 pm
@snood,
But thankfully, the electoral votes are way beyond that 10-15 pts.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 07:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Romney says he increases tax revenue by creating more jobs.

The government doesn't create jobs.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 07:59 pm
@cicerone imposter,
It ain't over until its over.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 08:59 pm
@snood,
I'm just glad Obama remained presidential. The weakness of this debate are the American people; they don't know when Romney is lying - and he lied on most of his rebuttals.

Que sera sera.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Oct, 2012 09:25 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Romney won the debate, 67/25. That's only because most people don't understand that Romney's rebuttals were mostly lies.

 

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