RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Sep, 2012 12:10 pm
@georgeob1,
Answer the question!
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Sep, 2012 02:18 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
. I place far more fault on the Democrats


Of course you do. However, this isn't an accurate reflection of reality in the slightest.

You do realize, don't you, that Boehner won't even say the word 'compromise' in an interview? That Cantor thinks the definition of a compromise, is the Democrats agreeing to everything he proposes, and the GOP giving nothing in return?

You're living in a fantasy world, George, if you think the prez is the one who has an issue with compromise and is the cause of gridlock in Washington. But, I have to ask myself; seeing as you don't even believe in the concept of Obstructionism, or that the the GOP has been obstructionist in the slightest, why should anyone take your views seriously?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Sep, 2012 04:08 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

Since there doesn't seem to be a thread dedicated solely to discussing Romney's candidacy, pro & con....

To start things off, here's an article about him refusing to state his position on repealing the immigration policy Obama just enacted - I think it is a good example of Romney's spinelessness:

“But would you repealed (sic) this?” Schieffer pressed.

“Well, it would be overtaken by events, if you will, by virtue of my putting in place a long-term solution with legislation that creates law that relates to these individuals such that they no what their setting is going to be,” Romney explained.

“I don’t want keep on about this, but just to make sure I understand, would you leave this in place while you work out a long-term solution or would you just repeal it?” the CBS host asked again.

“We’ll look at that setting as we reach that,” Romney insisted...


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/06/17/romney-refuses-to-say-if-he-would-undo-obamas-immigration-policy/



In the end it doesn't matter what he or Obama says. The most trusted and liked will win.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence. The only consequence is WHAT WE DO.
John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Sep, 2012 04:47 pm
@georgeob1,
You are quite right georgeob1

To the extent that the president has a leadership style, it is autocratic in nature. A man of very little humility, his expectation is that he leads by virtue of his magnificence and those of us worthy of his leadership, will follow.

The use of the pronoun "we", by politicians, can sometimes seem forced until one listens to the narcissism expressed by Obama through a use of the pronoun "I" to a degree that, by comparison, is jarring. A perfect example was his crowing after the raid on bin Landen which might have led the causal listener (or Obama devotee) to believe that he was was the very person who put a bullet in the terrorist's brain.

His affection for "I" might be refreshing, but instead it is unseemly.

Is it any wonder that so many men and women in our military are not among his minions?

Effective leaders don't take public credit for the results of their teams even if they may have been the primary driver of that result.

In the killing of bin Laden, Obama wasn't even remotely responsible for the result. He approved, after Valerie Jarret warned him off it for political reasons, twice before, a mission that virtually every person who has ever run for president, let alone held the office would have approved.

This was courageous leadership?

How telling that that the Clinton Ad focused on the political peril Obama faced with the approval of this mission and not the existential peril of the men who carried it out.

All very bad enough, but then we find the White House playing fast and loose with classified information that endangers American operations, American sources (just think about that poor bastard Pakistani doctor who will spend the rest of his life in a medieval prison as thanks for helping America), and American warriors (Does anyone think that the members of Navy Seals Team Six wanted the world to know they were the guys who pulled it off? Does anyone wonder if there was a connection between that shameful revelation and the deaths of members of Team Six shortly thereafter?)

There is no model of effective leadership that vouches for that adopted by our
Great Leader.
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Sep, 2012 05:01 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
It wasn't just being responsible for killing Bin laden, it was also keeping us out of war with Iran and N Korea, ending the Iraq war, getting rid of Kadafi, and who knows how many fences he and Hilliary mended.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Sep, 2012 05:22 pm
@Rickoshay75,
Where to begin?

He kept us out of war with North Korea?

When were we close to going to war with NK?

Is there ANY reason to believe that McCain intended for us to go to war with North Korea?

He didn't end the Iraq War. If you think he did you are utterly wrong, and probably ignorant...and this is not necessarily a criticism, just a fact.

Do you really think he "got rid of Kadafi"?

He "led" from behind, and when you do so you can't possibly take credit for any result unless you are an utter egoist...which, of course, he is.

As terrible as Kadafi may have been, he died a heinous death that NO ONE, deserves. He was beaten mercilessly and had a bayonet shoved up his ass. Do you want to credit Obama for that gentle passing to the next life?

What fences did he and Hillary mend?

You've made the assertion and so you should be able to be more specific.

The fence with Russia?

The fence with Iran?

Think young one and stop feeding from the political trough!

JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Sep, 2012 05:39 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
He didn't end the Iraq War.


How casual y'all are about your discussions of US terrorism and US war crimes. One might consider that you lack moral fiber, Finn.

Stop calling the illegal invasion of Iraq a 'war'. It was nothing of the sort. It was like all the other war crimes the US has committed over the last century or so. How many Iraqis did the US "save" this time, Finn?

The only thing that ended the crimes against humanity committed by the US in Iraq was that the Iraqis refused to give the US leave to butcher more people with no consequences. That, as it always does, caused the criminals to flee Iraq.
0 Replies
 
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Sep, 2012 06:05 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Where to begin?

He kept us out of war with North Korea?

When were we close to going to war with NK?

Is there ANY reason to believe that McCain intended for us to go to war with North Korea?

He didn't end the Iraq War. If you think he did you are utterly wrong, and probably ignorant...and this is not necessarily a criticism, just a fact.

Do you really think he "got rid of Kadafi"?

He "led" from behind, and when you do so you can't possibly take credit for any result unless you are an utter egoist...which, of course, he is.

As terrible as Kadafi may have been, he died a heinous death that NO ONE, deserves. He was beaten mercilessly and had a bayonet shoved up his ass. Do you want to credit Obama for that gentle passing to the next life?

What fences did he and Hillary mend?

You've made the assertion and so you should be able to be more specific.

The fence with Russia?

The fence with Iran?

Think young one and stop feeding from the political trough!




You have your say and I have mine -- let it go at that.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence. The only consequence is WHAT WE DO.
John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)
mysteryman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 2 Sep, 2012 06:34 pm
@Rickoshay75,
So in other words, you can't back up what you are saying, or you don't believe it.
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Sep, 2012 06:40 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

So in other words, you can't back up what you are saying, or you don't believe it.


What part of let it go don't you understand?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence. The only consequence is WHAT WE DO.
John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)
roger
 
  2  
Reply Sun 2 Sep, 2012 06:47 pm
@Rickoshay75,
Rickoshay75 wrote:

What part of let it go don't you understand?


A common sentiment - meaning you can't answer a single point raised by Finn.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  4  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 07:36 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
I place far more fault on the Democrats and a self-absorbed, rather inept President who oddly stood above the legislative fray; didn't absorb himself in the details of the programs he proposed; and failed utterly to forge any links with the opposition or to use the established democratic process to deal with urgent problems. Add to that the fact that he ignored urgent issues with respect to the economic revovery in favor of a preconceived agenda, and appears to have very little understanding of the operation of our economy - and you get unassailable and unredeemable ignorance and failure.

That's rather long on rhetoric and short on details. In effect, you're saying that the Democrats are at fault because Obama is a bad negotiator. That may very well be true, but I don't see any concrete evidence of that. For instance, what compromise proposals did the Republicans put forward that Obama either rejected or else left on the table because he "failed utterly to forge any links with the opposition or to use the established democratic process to deal with urgent problems?"
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 07:49 am
@snood,
Well said; many conservatives still believes that Obama is not a US citizen.

There's no cure for stupid; evidence have been provided, but they continue to claim they're all fraudulent.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 10:21 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:
I place far more fault on the Democrats and a self-absorbed, rather inept President who oddly stood above the legislative fray; didn't absorb himself in the details of the programs he proposed; and failed utterly to forge any links with the opposition or to use the established democratic process to deal with urgent problems. Add to that the fact that he ignored urgent issues with respect to the economic revovery in favor of a preconceived agenda, and appears to have very little understanding of the operation of our economy - and you get unassailable and unredeemable ignorance and failure.

That's rather long on rhetoric and short on details. In effect, you're saying that the Democrats are at fault because Obama is a bad negotiator. That may very well be true, but I don't see any concrete evidence of that. For instance, what compromise proposals did the Republicans put forward that Obama either rejected or else left on the table because he "failed utterly to forge any links with the opposition or to use the established democratic process to deal with urgent problems?"


Well it was far longer on details than was your highly rhetorical rejoinder. I most certainly did not "in effect" say the Democrats were at at fault because Obama is a bad negotiator. What I wrote was clear and detailed enough. It is above so you can read it again.

With respect to your one specific question, the Republicans proposed health care insurance reform that would permit the portability and nation-wide sale/transfer of policies and significant tort reform to limit an obvious source of unwarranted cost escallation and non productive defensive medicine. Here it is noteworthy that the government, in its proposed bureaucratic administrative determination of cost effective treatment modalities, would itself be immune from such tort claims.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 10:25 am
@georgeob1,
Get called rhetorical, then turn around and call your accuser rhetorical.

What a great debating style!
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 10:48 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:

With respect to your one specific question, the Republicans proposed health care insurance reform that would permit the portability and nation-wide sale/transfer of policies and significant tort reform to limit an obvious source of unwarranted cost escallation and non productive defensive medicine. Here it is noteworthy that the government, in its proposed bureaucratic administrative determination of cost effective treatment modalities, would itself be immune from such tort claims.


Um, neither of those things represent a compromise position. You responded to a request for evidence of the GOP pushing a compromise position, with a recitation of the GOP's traditional position.

In the context of this thread, this is highly ironic.

Can you provide an actual example of an attempt at compromise? Should we go over what that word means?

Cycloptichorn
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 10:52 am
@Cycloptichorn,
http://blogs-images.forbes.com/rickungar/files/2012/05/MW-AR658_spendi_20120521163312_ME.jpg

Can someone explain to me again that Obama's a "Big Government Socialist?"
joefromchicago
 
  5  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 12:25 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
Well it was far longer on details than was your highly rhetorical rejoinder.

No, they were both pretty much detail-free. The only difference is that I wasn't pretending to offer details.

georgeob1 wrote:
With respect to your one specific question, the Republicans proposed health care insurance reform that would permit the portability and nation-wide sale/transfer of policies and significant tort reform to limit an obvious source of unwarranted cost escallation and non productive defensive medicine. Here it is noteworthy that the government, in its proposed bureaucratic administrative determination of cost effective treatment modalities, would itself be immune from such tort claims.

As Cycloptichorn pointed out, those aren't compromises. They were proposed at a time when no member of the GOP was willing to vote for the insurance reform package, regardless of its final form. If there's no intention to accept the compromise, then it's not really a compromise, is it?

If, however, you can identify any GOP member of congress who was willing to vote for the Obama health care insurance reform - provided those provisions you identified were added -- then I'll happily revise my opinion.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 12:31 pm
It's interesting to note from DrewDad's chart, in the last thirty years, the SLOWEST growth in government spending has occurred under Democratic presidents. The LARGEST growth in spending has occurred under Republicam presidents. There's no overlap between the parties. Another phony right-wing meme shot to hell. DON'T GIVE BIG-GOVERNMENT REPUBLICAN WASTRELS ANOTHER CHANCE TO SQUANDER OUR TAX DOLLARS. Vote Democratic.
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Sep, 2012 01:41 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

It's interesting to note from DrewDad's chart, in the last thirty years, the SLOWEST growth in government spending has occurred under Democratic presidents. The LARGEST growth in spending has occurred under Republicam presidents. There's no overlap between the parties. Another phony right-wing meme shot to hell. DON'T GIVE BIG-GOVERNMENT REPUBLICAN WASTRELS ANOTHER CHANCE TO SQUANDER OUR TAX DOLLARS. Vote Democratic.


It's good to not reference what was going on during those presidencies when looking at numbers. Context means nothing when making a point.
0 Replies
 
 

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