DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 08:25 am
@mysteryman,
Child abuse is illegal, is it not?

Have you really thought this argument through?
revelette
 
  3  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 08:33 am
@mysteryman,
Quote:
However, what he is saying about single parenting being a contributing factor in child abuse is correct, as are many other factors.


If it is correct, where is the data proving it? It seems like unsubstantiated Bull crap to me.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 08:40 am
@DrewDad,
Child abuse is illegal, that's correct.
But that doesn't mean that all of the contributing factors are or should be.

There are so many things that contribute to child abuse that to make them all illegal would be impossible.

For example, drunk driving is illegal and since one of its contributing factors is drinking in a bar, which is a legal activity, would you propose making all bars illegal, or liquor stores? After all, being able to purchase alcohol also contributes to drunk driving
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 08:44 am
@revelette,
When I get home from work tonight I will post some data to back up what I am saying.
I can't do it right now because I am on my phone, and its a bitch to try and have 2 screens up at the same time.
I will be home around 4pm central time.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 08:45 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:
However, what he is saying about single parenting being a contributing factor in child abuse is correct



So is step-parenting, unemployment and Christian Biblical literacy.


Quote:
Unemployment and financial difficulties are associated with increased rates of child abuse.[47] In 2009 CBS News reported that child abuse in the United States had increased during the economic recession. It gave the example of a father who had never been the primary care-taker of the children. Now that the father was in that role, the children began to come in with injuries.[48]

A 1988 study of child murders in the US found that children are 100 times more often killed by a "non-biological parent (e.g. step-parent, co-habitee or boyfriend/girlfriend of a biological parent)" than by a biological parent.[49] An evolutionary psychology explanation for this is that using resources in order to take care of another person's biological child is likely not a good strategy for increasing reproductive success.[49] More generally, stepchildren have a much higher risk of being abused which is sometimes referred to as the Cinderella effect.

Psychologists conducted a study in 2010 which examined over 200 regular church attendees from eleven different denominations of Christianity, most of whom were educated, upper-middle class White Americans, found that extrinsic religious orientation was associated with a greater risk of physical child abuse. Those with a more extrinsic religious orientation who also adhered to greater social conformity were particularly more likely to share characteristics with physically abusive subjects. Subjects who adhered to Biblical literalism exhibited a higher potential of physical child abuse. Those who had a more intrinsic religious orientation were not found to be at a greater risk of child abuse, although they sometimes exhibited greater social conformity or a greater propensity for holding literal interpretations of the Bible. Approximately 85% of the study's subjects were parents.[50]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abuse

Should you prevented from having contact with children you are not biologically related to?
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 08:48 am
@mysteryman,
Ok

But even if you do prove it, doubt it, to demonize single parents is just par for the course for a certain segment of today's republican party.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 09:03 am
@revelette,
I don't disagree, but that does not equate with trying to outlaw it.
And that's what the charge was, that repubs wan
t to outlaw it.

Which if you think about it, would be impossible from the start.
There are to many single parents because of war dead, vehicle accidents, fires, floods, etc. to even attempt it.
Whoever drew up that list I originally responded to knows that, that's why I calld BS on it.
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 09:19 am
@mysteryman,
Perhaps the language outlaw was not correct, but aligning single parents with child abuse in a bill concerning child abuse would single out attention on single parents in cases of child abuse in a official way.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  3  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 10:16 am
@mysteryman,
For that matter just being a parent is a factor in child abuse. Why single out one set of parents as contributing to child abuse?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 10:47 am
@georgeob1,
This is the first statement you made that caught my eye,
Quote:
Instead jobs are created by entrepreneurs and private companies.


That's correct, and I agree 100%. However, Romney said he's going to create over 12 million jobs during his first term, that's 250,000/month.

Tell me; with this world Great Recession, how do you expect any one person to "create" 12 millions jobs in four years? World demand for goods and services are down, and not showing much improvement. The EU, the second largest economy in the world is struggling with a much higher unemployment rate than the US. How are entrepreneurs and private companies supposed to "create" jobs when there's no demand?

I have a bridge to sell you.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 11:11 am
@cicerone imposter,
What the GOP doesn't want you to know.
The federal debt under GOP presidents grew more and faster.
GW Bush doubled the federal debt - which is now being blamed on Obama.
Spending by Obama was necessary to give middle class income earners tax breaks, and extension of unemployment benefits resulting from the Great Recession and the loss of jobs. Obama also spent $787 billion on the stim bill which most economists agree lessened the impact of the Great Recession.
Obama saved the US auto industry which saved tens of thousands of jobs - all over the world.

http://i45.tinypic.com/fukxy.png

http://i48.tinypic.com/ashm1.png

http://i47.tinypic.com/2ldhn5u.png
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 11:22 am
@cicerone imposter,
Did you object when Obama siaid he was going to create jobs when he ran for office?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 11:28 am
@mysteryman,
mm, You are pretty ignorant aren't you? When president Obama tried to pass legislation to help our economy, the GOP stopped it.

You are the kind of people that I apply
Quote:
"there's no cure for stupid."
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 11:45 am
Quote:

Romney’s speech: Where was the policy?

Posted by Ezra Klein on August 31, 2012 at 6:59 am

A few thoughts on Romney’s speech.

1. We heard precious little about Mitt Romney’s plans for the country. By my count, Barack Obama’s 2008 convention speech spent 768 words describing his domestic and economic policies. Romney’s speech spent 260 words. There was almost no mention — and absolutely no description — of his budget, tax, health care or Medicare plans.

2. The only policy idea he described in any detail was his five-point plan “to create 12 million new jobs.” The plan is more domestic energy production, more free trade agreements, more skills development, more deficit reduction, and cutting taxes and regulations. It is difficult to see how these policies — most of which would take some time to work — would address the jobs crisis we’re in right now. But perhaps they don’t have to. Romney’s target of 12 million jobs over the next four years happens to be the same number of jobs the economic forecasting firm Moody’s Analytics expects us to add even without major policy changes.

3. Here’s Romney’s theory of why Obama failed: “The President hasn’t disappointed you because he wanted to. The President has disappointed America because he hasn’t led America in the right direction. He took office without the basic qualification that most Americans have and one that was essential to his task. He had almost no experience working in a business. Jobs to him are about government.” But if business experience is the key qualification for a president, why did Romney pick Paul Ryan, who has spent even less time in the private sector than Obama, to be his vice president?

4. The most devastating line in Romney’s speech: “If you felt that excitement when you voted for Barack Obama, shouldn’t you feel that way now that he’s President Obama? You know there’s something wrong with the kind of job he’s done as president when the best feeling you had was the day you voted for him.”

5. Perhaps it was just me, but I had trouble following the basic thread of the speech, at least during the first half of the speech. Structurally, it began with a riff on how our forefathers came to this country looking for freedom. Then there was a section on the economic pain and personal disappointment Americans are feeling. Then a quick attack on Obama. Then came a riff on Neil Armstrong. Then Romney’s biography. Then a longer attack on Obama’s record. Then a brief look at Romney’s policies. Then the final exhortation. As the line goes, it was a beginning, a muddle, and an end.

6. Romney’s speech included a number of riffs at odds with his policies. For instance: “Nearly one out of six Americans is living in poverty. Look around you. These are not strangers. These are our brothers and sisters, our fellow Americans.” There is simply no way, given the nature of Romney’s budget promises, that programs for the poor won’t be slashed to the bone. Similarly, he spent some time extolling the virtues of NASA, but it’s also hard to imagine that program surviving the 40 percent cut to all non-Medicare, non-Social Security, non-defense spending that Romney’s budget envisions.

7. The biographical portion of Romney’s speech was very strong. I’m not among those who thinks Romney needed to be “humanized.” He always struck me as a good, decent family man. But if you did think he needed to be humanized, he probably did an effective job of answering the concern.

8. But there was a glaring omission from Romney’s biography: He made almost no mention of his time as governor of Massachusetts. In fact, the only thing he said about it was: “As Governor of Massachusetts, I chose a woman Lt. Governor, a woman chief of staff, half of my cabinet and senior officials were women, and in business, I mentored and supported great women leaders who went on to run great companies.” There was nothing on his health-care bill, his budgets, his ability to work with the Democrats in the state legislature…

9. Whoever planned the convention failed Romney terribly. The first night lacked a clear case for Romney, but ended with a rousing argument for Chris Christie in 2016. The second night was better, but the case Paul Ryan made still seemed to fit Ryan better than it fit Romney. And putting Clint Eastwood in prime time to interview an empty chair on the night of Romney’s acceptance speech was an absolute disaster. That was time that could have been used to show the incredibly well-produced video about Romney’s life, or to feature a speech from someone who has known or worked with Romney.

10. Speaking of which, you should read the full transcript of Clint Eastwood’s speech. The Obama campaign’s response also deserves to be quoted. “Referring all questions on this to Salvador Dalí,” campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt e-mailed to reporters.

11. All in all, Romney’s speech was…fine. I doubt he did himself any harm. And I’m sure he’ll get some sort of a convention bump. But it felt like a missed opportunity for him to close the deal. The American people already know that they’re not happy with the economy. Tonight was Romney’s chance to persuade them that he has a better way. But his speech really didn’t even try to do that.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/08/31/romneys-speech-where-was-the-policy/

Cycloptichorn
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 11:49 am
@cicerone imposter,
You seem to have missed the point. When Obama campaigned, he said he was going to "create" jobs.
I am not asking why he didn't accomplished that, I am asking if you objected to him using the word "create jobs" like you are objecting to Romney using that same phrase.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 12:00 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Interesting critique and largely accurate in my view. However the bias of the writer was plainly evident. For example;
1. While Barack Obama's convention speech four years ago may have had more proposed policy assertions, there was little detail offered, and, as we have allsince learned, much of it was inaccurate and very little of it actually achieved. That too was a central theme of Romney's speech and was quite relevant to the criticism Klein offered here.
2. Neither Obama nor Biden has any significant private sector experience and both rather obviously favor more government oversit of our economy. In these conditions, I think faulting Romney for picking a young experienced politician as his running mate was a bit petty and hypocritical.
3. There was no mention of what was obviously the central, and most important, theme of Romney's speech and rationale for choosing him over Obama - namely a preference for more private and individual economic initiative and less government management of our economy - particularly at the Federal level (To paraphrase Reagan "Government isn't the solution: government is the problem". Klein evaded that key element totally. That's hard to rationalize in any critique.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 12:10 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
What's more interesting is his promise of creating 12 millions jobs in four years.
That means he's going to start creating jobs from day one, or when job creation is delayed, he'd have to create over 250,000 jobs every month to meet his promised goal.

Can't be done; there's a world Great Recession going on. Even China is suffering from too much inventory growth now, because the world marketplace demand has dropped.

What I see are lies and more lies from Romney and company.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 12:13 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
1. While Barack Obama's convention speech four years ago may have had more proposed policy assertions, there was little detail offered, and, as we have allsince learned, much of it was inaccurate and very little of it actually achieved.


To be fair to the man, there was a massive financial crash a month after his acceptance speech that fundamentally altered the political climate. That's probably a detail worth pointing out when you say 'little was actually achieved.' I think it's also worth pointing out that the GOP did a great job holding together and blocking as much of his agenda as possible; but, that's hard to pin on Obama.

Quote:
2. Neither Obama nor Biden has any significant private sector experience and both rather obviously favor more government oversit of our economy. In these conditions, I think faulting Romney for picking a young experienced politician as his running mate was a bit petty and hypocritical.


Obama has more private-sector experience than Ryan does. The problem isn't with Obama's experience, it's with Romney's central argument for his campaign and the fact that Ryan doesn't really fit in well with that vision. He also doesn't fit in from a foreign policy angle, and he can hardly be considered to be a successful member of the House - practically NONE of the bills he has authored have become law, other than a few post offices (even during the Bush days). So, what exactly is the justification for picking the guy? Mostly, it's because your bunch has a man-crush on him.

Quote:
3. There was no mention of what was obviously the central, and most important, theme of Romney's speech and rationale for choosing him over Obama - namely a preference for more private and individual economic initiative and less government management of our economy - particularly at the Federal level


There's just not a lot of evidence that individual and private control is more efficient or helpful for a lot of the duties that Government performs. The problem for your argument is that most Americans don't agree with the SPECIFICS of what you propose. In general, sure, your above line sounds very reasonable. But when specific elements of things that are currently ran by the government are proposed to be privatized - Medicare, SS, food safety inspections, highway maintenance - these bills fail to garner public support, every single time. Why do you think that is?

A reasonable observer would admit that there are some things handled better by private businesses, and some handled better by government. I don't see any admission of this from the current GOP.

Re: Romney's speech, I think it was well-delivered but will ultimately fail to sway any voters. He just doesn't have the rhetorical ability to use a speech to forward his central argument - even the line you wrote above contains nothing new whatsoever for voters to think about. The theme of the Romney campaign is the EXACT same theme the GOP has been pushing since 1980, and if you didn't already agree with it, are you going to start agreeing because of the speech Romney gave? I have doubts about that, and I suspect that we will see only a small polling bump for Romney after this - if any at all.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 12:18 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

What's more interesting is his promise of creating 12 millions jobs in four years.


Actually, that's not very ambitious - the CBO projects that this is only a million or so more jobs than would be created had we made no changes to our current policies whatsoever.

It's an average of 250k jobs per month, every month. It's doable to do so - now that Obama and his policies have stopped the bleeding.

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 Aug, 2012 12:22 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Romney's primary message was,"I'm a good guy with good parents and a great family." Then, he goes on with lies about Obama and his own plan for our economy. "12 million jobs in four years" is just so much pie in the sky rhetoric that most people don't question, and believe; they don't have a clue. Ignorance, all around.
 

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