6
   

Why do you hate globalization, China, and India?

 
 
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 03:14 am

Steven Pinker said there is a decline of violence world wide. One of the reason is the "expanding circle". That is, people look beyond, there own, race, society to people all over the world. By Pinker 'slogic, we should feel good that people in India, and China, are getting ahead in life, and be glad that the world is moving in the right direction of lowering world poverty.

As I see it, the world is moving in the right direction. Technologies have eliminate privilege. You are rich, and privilege, not because of where you are born, but because of what you know, you skills, you hard work and education.

For once in the history of mankind, if you are smart, ambitious, and hard working at school anywhere on the planet, you have a chance at a middle class life anywhere in the world. Why is this bad? If you truly believe in humanity, you should feel good that hard work, and talented people everywhere have a chance of enriching their own community, themselves, and contributing to a better future for the rest of mankind. That middle class life style is enjoyable, and reachable for everyone, and fortune is achievable anywhere on the planet.
 
vikorr
 
  5  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 05:07 pm
@TuringEquivalent,
Quote:
As I see it, the world is moving in the right direction. Technologies have eliminate privilege.
Fascinating concept. Perhaps you'd like to offer examples?

Quote:
You are rich, and privilege, not because of where you are born,
I dare say the very vast majority of Africans disagree with you...except the priveleged elite. I daresay the farmers in China are in a similar state of disagreement. Those Iraqi's that grew up under a sanctioned Iraq would have disagreed also. North Koreans probably don't have enough information to disagree.

Quote:
but because of what you know, you skills, you hard work and education.
Such a shame that what you know, your skills, and your education...largely rely on access to education, which is minimal in many countries.

Quote:
For once in the history of mankind, if you are smart, ambitious, and hard working at school anywhere on the planet, you have a chance at a middle class life anywhere in the world.
I guess you aren't aware of the growing divide between the rich and the poor then? Nor aware of the shrinking middle class (in developed nations at least)? Nor what percentage of the US population controls what percentage of it's wealth?

There are plenty of people who understand the ramifications of globalisation who don't 'hate' globalisation...which is a good thing if done ethically and with social conscience. Unfortunately, profit, rather than 'ethics & social conscience' is by far the main aim of the day for most global corporations.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 07:14 pm
@vikorr,
...you bother to much Vic, why do you care to answer such nonsense I wonder ? You are probably one of the most forgiving persons in the forum...a straight laugh would be enough, but you actually go through it step by step...
Lustig Andrei
 
  5  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 08:12 pm
@TuringEquivalent,
TuringEquivalent wrote:
Why do you hate globalization, China, and India?


Who you talking to?
0 Replies
 
TuringEquivalent
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 08:22 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

...you bother to much Vic, why do you care to answer such nonsense I wonder ? You are probably one of the most forgiving persons in the forum...a straight laugh would be enough, but you actually go through it step by step...


Really? How so..? Delusions can get you no where.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  4  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 08:24 pm
@TuringEquivalent,
Why do you assume I hate globalisation, China and India?

What an extraordinary assumption.
TuringEquivalent
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 08:28 pm
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

Quote:
As I see it, the world is moving in the right direction. Technologies have eliminate privilege.
Fascinating concept. Perhaps you'd like to offer examples?

Quote:
You are rich, and privilege, not because of where you are born,
I dare say the very vast majority of Africans disagree with you...except the priveleged elite. I daresay the farmers in China are in a similar state of disagreement. Those Iraqi's that grew up under a sanctioned Iraq would have disagreed also. North Koreans probably don't have enough information to disagree.

Quote:
but because of what you know, you skills, you hard work and education.
Such a shame that what you know, your skills, and your education...largely rely on access to education, which is minimal in many countries.

Quote:
For once in the history of mankind, if you are smart, ambitious, and hard working at school anywhere on the planet, you have a chance at a middle class life anywhere in the world.
I guess you aren't aware of the growing divide between the rich and the poor then? Nor aware of the shrinking middle class (in developed nations at least)? Nor what percentage of the US population controls what percentage of it's wealth?

There are plenty of people who understand the ramifications of globalisation who don't 'hate' globalisation...which is a good thing if done ethically and with social conscience. Unfortunately, profit, rather than 'ethics & social conscience' is by far the main aim of the day for most global corporations.


Unfortunately, no, you don 't. Life is generally getting better for people in China, India, and Africa. Yes, I know what US is doing. The war it is fighting. Do you know why I know? I know, because they start companies. They are studying hard, and they have amazing talent to go leading universities in the world, work couple years, and decide to make money doing their own thing. Yes, the world still suck, but I do know the mass of smart decent people will overcome warmongers, and genocidal imperialist.

You tell me what globalization means to you. Globalization means to me international labor, and human capital becomes commodities. So in a competitive global market place, capitalism will seek to exploit labor, and the other factors of productions. Since, routine jobs are being automated, what is left is high value productive jobs going to talents where every they are. This is why the middle class in the US is eroding. The US middle class is not competitive. Global companies will seek to employ Indians, rather then Americans become India have the comparative advantage in traditional service jobs. Global companies will hire Chinese/Korean/Japanese engineers, because they have the most concentration of it in their population. The world is changing, and the only way to keep up is ever expansion of productivity increasing technology, and destructive creation of industries.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 08:30 pm
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:

Why do you assume I hate globalisation, China and India?

What an extraordinary assumption.


See my post above.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 09:46 pm
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:

Why do you assume I hate globalisation, China and India?

What an extraordinary assumption.

But you do, do you not, like Bavaria better?
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 10:15 pm
@Thomas,
Nein, ich habe Bavaria nicht gern.
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 10:17 pm
@dlowan,
Aber die Bayerische Leute sind ganz gemuetlich. (Ich habe kein Umlauten am meine Maschine.)
vikorr
 
  3  
Reply Thu 14 Jun, 2012 02:00 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Hi Fil,

I think everyone has their own journey to go through. If I am further along in my journey on a particular path - that is no reason to berate others who aren't as far along. And I would expect the same in return were the positions switched Smile

That said - I do also recognise when people aren't open to ideas. And even then, sometimes I'm happy to share my thoughts.

Hi Turning,

Your reply barely addressed my responses (though it appears you think they did), and where they did, they were quite incomplete regarding the effects.

Do you by the way, know how to break the poverty cycle?

Do you know how to grow tribal societies into modern societies? Do you comprehend why corruption is endemic in tribal societies when large amounts of money are introduced? And the exploitation that allows?

Do you understand why economies take time to develop, and why plonking a factory in the middle of poor labour can lead to a decrease in entrepreneurial skill (which is necessary for countries to develop a sustainable economy)?

Do you comprehend how taxation works to sustain and grow economies, and the effects of introducing foreign factories at discounted tax rates into an impoverished country?

That a short list that barely scratches the surface of different questions regarding economies. Economics is a vast interwined web of : culture, skills, role-modelling, child raising, education, training, opportunity, specialisation, taxation, protectionism, trade, transport, agriculture, accountability/law/anti-corruption etc.

It's easy to show you numerous places where what you say doesn't work - the overall effects are obvious once you look for the complete outcome (rather than specific outcomes in a sector that is only a minor part of a complete economy). The 'glittery fluff' that multi-nationals sell regarding 'how good they are for impoverished economies' and that is bought by many people ignorant of the entire system... is only properly understood by looking at the whole system.

It's also easy to show places where some of what you say actually works. Asia has great examples of both sides of the coin. And on the note of Asia - do you know by the way, why I included Chinese farmers in my previous post?
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jun, 2012 02:06 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:

Aber die Bayerische Leute sind ganz gemuetlich. (Ich habe kein Umlauten am meine Maschine.)


Vielleicht, aber ich habe nur the video to go by.M
0 Replies
 
TuringEquivalent
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jun, 2012 02:22 am
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

Hi Fil,

I think everyone has their own journey to go through. If I am further along in my journey on a particular path - that is no reason to berate others who aren't as far along. And I would expect the same in return were the positions switched Smile

That said - I do also recognise when people aren't open to ideas. And even then, sometimes I'm happy to share my thoughts.

Hi Turning,

Your reply barely addressed my responses (though it appears you think they did), and where they did, they were quite incomplete regarding the effects.

Do you by the way, know how to break the poverty cycle?

Do you know how to grow tribal societies into modern societies? Do you comprehend why corruption is endemic in tribal societies when large amounts of money are introduced? And the exploitation that allows?

Do you understand why economies take time to develop, and why plonking a factory in the middle of poor labour can lead to a decrease in entrepreneurial skill (which is necessary for countries to develop a sustainable economy)?

Do you comprehend how taxation works to sustain and grow economies, and the effects of introducing foreign factories at discounted tax rates into an impoverished country?

That a short list that barely scratches the surface of different questions regarding economies. Economics is a vast interwined web of : culture, skills, role-modelling, child raising, education, training, opportunity, specialisation, taxation, protectionism, trade, transport, agriculture, accountability/law/anti-corruption etc.

It's easy to show you numerous places where what you say doesn't work - the overall effects are obvious once you look for the complete outcome (rather than specific outcomes in a sector that is only a minor part of a complete economy). The 'glittery fluff' that multi-nationals sell regarding 'how good they are for impoverished economies' and that is bought by many people ignorant of the entire system... is only properly understood by looking at the whole system.

It's also easy to show places where some of what you say actually works. Asia has great examples of both sides of the coin. And on the note of Asia - do you know by the way, why I included Chinese farmers in my previous post?


It seems to me you don 't know. You want to go metaphorical on me? No, no, friend.

All evidence seems to point to comparative advantage, and export led growth is the only way for a poor nation to become rich. Yes, education, and family background of doing business matters, but if a poor guy from the third world develop their talent, human capital, they might either immigrate to a rich country, or be exploit by a multinational. Either way, they build business connections, raise capital.


vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 Jun, 2012 02:56 am
@TuringEquivalent,
Quote:
It seems to me you don 't know. You want to go metaphorical on me? No, no, friend.
You must not know what a metaphor is. I was asking for and offering real life examples.

I notice that you give little to no actual examples. Perhaps you'd care to. After all, if your viewpoint is right, and seeing as globalisation has gone into many countries...you must be able to provide examples.
Quote:
All evidence seems to point to comparative advantage, and export led growth is the only way for a poor nation to become rich


The mini-system of 'export led growth' occurs within cities, and then inter city, and then interstate, and then international. At all stages wealth is generated.

You should also obviously be aware that the ability to export requires the ability to create something worth exporting. In today's world of multi-nationals, the ability to create something worth exporting can be imported.

However, for what you say to be true (to the extent that it is one of the ways to become rich) what you say must also have held true before rich nations became rich (enough to establish multi-nationals)

Are you aware also that financial wealth is just Assets? There is nothing else to it. Money is a representative form of assets.

Once you comprehend this (and it really is undebatable) - the movement of money becomes much more interesting.
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 Jun, 2012 09:02 am
@TuringEquivalent,
To which world are you referring? I do not recognize Earth from what you describe. Wink

Quote:
As I see it, the world is moving in the right direction. Technologies have eliminate privilege. You are rich, and privilege, not because of where you are born, but because of what you know, you skills, you hard work and education.


This is simply not true. It matters where you are born. In Norway you can survive by working 10 hours per week. In many places that isn't even a full day's work, and I get paid more for my 10 hours than people in those places get in a month.... Technology can eliminate privilege, but not as long as the privileged use it to maintain the current imbalance. The world is being raped by greedy warmongers.
0 Replies
 
tofayelbd
 
  0  
Reply Tue 19 Jun, 2012 09:20 am
I support, 'occupy every where'. That means balance, people want balance. This is demand of age, so this demand will be raising rapidly.
0 Replies
 
carolgreen876
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2012 07:09 pm
yeah ,they both have a big population and brodened land.
0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2012 07:22 pm
I think it's high time we all sang a rousing chorus of Bayrisch Bier und Lehberwurst, yu-haidi yu-hada! (Don't know if that's how you spell yukaidi or yuhaida, for that matter, but perhaps Thomas will be kind enough to correct me.)
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
GAFFNEY: Whose side is Obama on? - Discussion by gungasnake
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Why do you hate globalization, China, and India?
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 06/19/2021 at 10:39:54