What is "nothing"

@Nothingsomething,

Nothingsomething wrote:

What's funny is when we believe that something is nothing.
We give nothing a name, thus turning that nothing into something, I mean , even nothing Is something because if it was nothing (or what we believe to be nothing) it wouldn't exist and so it wouldn't be nothing, it just wouldn't be, it would simply cease to exist.

Nothing is nada, nil, squat, nought, zero, nicts, nonexistent

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@dalehileman,

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Using our Intuition, greatly devalued by the cosmological pundits

Perhaps. I think our intuition is very involved.

It is possible to remove everything from a box, and then assert that the box is empty. Intuitively we then imagine the whole universe as this box and find no difficulty imagining that it could, potentially, be empty.
That line of reasoning presumes that the universe is anything like a box; that it is a container of existence, and that if nothing existed, the universe would be full of nothingness. The only problem is that there is no box. We cannot speak of or think of 'absolute nothing', because when we remove all distinctions there is nothing to speak or think of. As soon as we think about it we evoke distinctions, and then it is not nothing.

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@Cyracuz,

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The only problem is that there is no box.

Quite true. Presumably there’s a Universe finite with no borders and no “outside"

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]We cannot speak of or think of 'absolute nothing',

Certainly we can speak of it and maybe even suggest that it was the condition before “creation”. I can certainly think about it, too (I just did) although of course one can’t imagine it in his mind’s eye

Quote:

As soon as we think about it we evoke distinctions, and then it is not nothing.

I think there’s a sort of semantic problem here. You seem to be saying that by speaking about it nothingness becomes something, which it is not. Fil help me here

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@dalehileman,

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Certainly we can speak of it and maybe even suggest that it was the condition before “creation”.

But what if before creation is just another "outside"?
My belief is that the universe is infinite. It has no beginning, so there can be no before.

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...people travel down a road and after each journey they are willing to think the road doesn't exist any more but only the point in where they are standing in the here and now...well you can do that all the way along the road...nothingness only fits that belief...funny enough the next day they take to the road again...

I rather think that not only there is a box but the box is always full.

...just like when you change a radio frequency you don't go on believing the previous station is dead although "your" perspective did change...you should do the same regarding your walks down the road...

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@Cyracuz,

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But what if before creation is just another "outside"?

”Outside” and “before” suggests “something,” possessing existence, qualities. One theory has us popping into existence out of nothingness, thus no “before"

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My belief is that the universe is infinite. It has no beginning, so there can be no before.

If by “infinite" you mean eternal, semimetal, timeless, I agree. In this connection it’s interesting to note that there’s no definitive term with the exclusive meaning of existing forever

http://onelook.com/?w=*&loc=revfp2&clue=existing+forever

If on the other hand you mean infinitely big, then your assertion is mixing duration with size

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@dalehileman,

Quote:

If by “infinite" you mean eternal, semimetal, timeless, I agree. In this connection it’s interesting to note that there’s no definitive term with the exclusive meaning of existing forever

If on the other hand you mean infinitely big, then your assertion is mixing duration with size

Excellent ! (...although duration is a form of size or one axis of size, just not exclusive...)
..."existing" forever is an relational consequence, a phenomenal assessment, that breaks down the true thing that timeless carry s within...indeed timeless does not equate to existing forever, although it justify the experience of foreverness...

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@Fil Albuquerque,

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Excellent !

Again thank you Fil for your support

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(...although duration is a form of size or one axis of size, just not exclusive...)

Remarkably coincidental that you should so assert because that very objection occurred to me as I wrote it. However I spend too much time at Thesaurus and OneLook while my yard work languishes

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...indeed timeless does not equate to existing forever,

It’s one of several synonyms that don’t quite fit

That’s not to say I endorse either infinity nor foreverness

http://able2know.org/topic/192288-1

....since they entail troublesome intuitional paradox and contradiction. But then so does the notion that we occurred out of nothingness

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@dalehileman,

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If by “infinite" you mean eternal, semimetal, timeless, I agree. In this connection it’s interesting to note that there’s no definitive term with the exclusive meaning of existing forever

But there is... It's called the present, and it's an infinite moment.

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@Cyracuz,

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But there is... It's called the present, and it's an infinite moment.

This is contrary to much “scientific” thinking. The present moment is thought of by most of us not as infinite but as infinitesimal, especially if it proves to proceed in quantum jumps

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:
Certainly we can speak of it and maybe even suggest that it was the condition before “creation”.

But what if before creation is just another "outside"?
My belief is that the universe is infinite. It has no beginning, so there can be no before.

With no creator in the mix, that's the way it has to be, no limit to small, no limit to big, no limit in any direction, just natural change. The movie, Horton Hears a Who, is a good example of how small it can get.

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@Rickoshay75,

I like the notion that the that physical Reality is without "beginning" or "end". But it does change. A change of major salience and interest to us is the event of the Big Bang. Reality did not begin with it but some of its forms did.

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@dalehileman,

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The present moment is thought of by most of us not as infinite but as infinitesimal

Actually, I disagree. The duration of the moment we call the present is infinite. There is no way around that.

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@JLNobody,

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Reality did not begin with it but some of its forms did.

Interesting speculation JL. Given sequential Big Bangs one might ask whether slight changes might occurs in the basics—like the value of a physical constant or two, etc. My guess is no, for many intuitional reasons

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@Cyracuz,

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The duration of the moment we call the present is infinite.

I’m sure Cyr you’ve already explained this but please don’t send me off looking for it

Most of us think of a moment as very short

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@dalehileman,

Some moments are longer than others. The point is that there is no definite measure for what is one moment. It is not a fixed value, and each moment seems to have no ending; it just flows seamlessly into the next moment. So the present is both infinitely short and infinitely long. But since we've already said "infinite", "short" and "long" are rather superfluous terms.

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@Cyracuz,

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Some moments are longer than others.

Seems a reasonable assertion

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... just flows seamlessly into the next moment. So the present is both infinitely short and infinitely long.......superfluous terms.

Yes in a way it’s sort of troubling to think that time is infinitely divisible. Maybe instead it will be learned that it progresses in steps, quanta

However the statement

Quote:

The duration of the moment we call the present is infinite.

...from a purely technical point of view is false

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@Cyracuz,

Some say that the moment consists of sequences of infinitesimal instances--with spaces between them. I don't know; my perception is not that acute. But I do feel that the ever-changing present is eternal in that it can never be expunged from the Reality of ever-changing presences.

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@JLNobody,

Yes, some do say that. As I see it, the concept of linear time, along with the belief that past and future are actual moments in time rather than memories (in the present) of what the present used to be and predictions (in the present) about what the present will become, are ideas that enforce the belief in time as something that comes in measures. My belief is that time is undivided and therefore infinite, and that we supply the measures.

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@Cyracuz,

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My belief is that time is undivided and therefore infinite

Forgive me Cyr but wouldn’t it be more accurate to say simply, “....time is indivisible.” Although it’s unnecessary and even tautological, you might add, “So it theoretically be divided into an unlimited number of moments.” Fil help me

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What is "nothing"

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