Some Musings About Sexual Orientation and Stuff

Whatever you say, Willis . . . geeze, you're obsessed . . .

@snood,

Consider the possibility that the root of your instinctive reaction comes from simple attraction (or un-attraction) and not homophobia.

If you imagine an incredibly unattractive hetero couple with an unattractive female kissing, do you have a similar feeling of "distaste" as seeing two men making out?

Conversely, if you imagine a more attractive couple, especially the female, then the disgust is reduced, except that you may still be uncomfortable with Public Displays of Affection.

I think these types of "distaste" are rooted primarily in simple attraction, and secondarily in the tendency of people to be uncomfortable with virtually anything which they are not accustomed to seeing.

In other words, the reason seeing men kissing is distasteful is simply because you're not attracted to them. And because you're heterosexual, all men essentially fall into the same category as "ugly women".

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Whatever you say, Willis . . . geeze, you're obsessed . . .

Seriously?

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@snood,

Yeah. In the civilized, or industrialized world, people just don't care. A certain proportion of the population is homosexual . . . meh. It is only with the shameless pandering to conservatism in the United States that this is an issue. Sure, there are "homophobes" in other civilized countries--but they don't have any political traction. The U.S. is in a not so exclusive club with African and Asian nations in which a brutal social conservatism rules.

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By the way, i'm not trying to beat up on you--i read and understood your comment in the OP about having once been less "liberal" in societal matters.

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I'd describe your reactions as visceral - that which is related to internal/instinctive feelings rather than the intellect. We all have visceral reactions that we can't explain very well. Perhaps they're influenced by your upbringing, or by natural instincts, or a combination of both. We're genetically programmed towards survival and we have instincts that push us in that direction. We eat more in the fall to bulk up for a long, cold winter in a cave. We've come from a people and time when only the strongest and fittest survived (or were allowed to survive). We're no longer that people but our gene pool (and our teachings) haven't caught up with us.

I have a sister who says she has absolutely no problem with gays as long as they stay in the closet. WTF? Her reactions are visceral. I have visceral reactions to other groups (militant fundamentalists of any religion, for example) because, imo, they have the potential of affecting the normal world order. Perhaps, deep down, your gene pool, upbringing, or combination of both is sending you the same message about homosexuals.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Yeah. In the civilized, or industrialized world, people just don't care. A certain proportion of the population is homosexual . . . meh. It is only with the shameless pandering to conservatism in the United States that this is an issue. Sure, there are "homophobes" in other civilized countries--but they don't have any political traction. The U.S. is in a not so exclusive club with African and Asian nations in which a brutal social conservatism rules.

Yeah okay, but to call me obsessed, because I start a discussion about it? One. Discussion. about. it. in all the years I've been at A2K? If that's any fair measurement of obsession, do you consider yourself obsessed with subjects you bring up? How do you get from "interested" or "intrigued" to "obsessed", in your estimation?

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@snood,

Have you forgotten your response to Mr. Obama's comments?

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@JPB,

This is a point well taken. The thought of engaging in homosexual activity, personally, almost makes me physically ill. However i am "blessed" (?) with an ability to separate my personal feelings from my responses to other people. I does not bother me in the least to think that other people do these things. I don't care if they do them with a dog and a horse, as long as the animals are happy.

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@Setanta,

And, relating this back to the use of the word 'homophobe', Id say that visceral reactions come with a component of fear - the fear of the species not surviving, or in the case of my religious example, the fear of extremists changing what I perceive as the normal world order. In that way, using the word 'homophobic' to describe snood's visceral reactions is valid.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

It is only with the shameless pandering to conservatism in the United States that this is an issue. Sure, there are "homophobes" in other civilized countries--but they don't have any political traction.

Not sure this is true. Europe, which I know from having lived most of my life there, is neither much more conservative nor much more liberal than America when it comes to gay rights. Specifically, some European countries have gay marriage, some don't. Moving on to industrialized countries I only know through Wikipedia, Japan, Australia and New Zealand don't have it, though New Zealand has civil unions. Canada, by contrast, appears to be exemplary.

My best guess, then, is that you're spoiled with the social attitudes in the country where you live. The political power of American homophobes is about average among industrialized countries.

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@Thomas,

I was not using "gay marriage" as a base line for determining tolerance. In many nations of Africa and Asia, homosexual activity is illegal, and the penalties are harsh. While one could point out that this is not true of the United States, it is only very recently that the Supremes sustained a Georgia law which made homosexual activity illegal (1985?), and a 1996 Colorado constitutional amendment making it illegal for any level of government to grant civil rights based on sexual orientation was struck down as having no rational basis. Ya win some, ya lose some. The American record is not consistently tolerant.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Have you forgotten your response to Mr. Obama's comments?

What's your point? That my comment on a historic occasion proves my obsession with - what, homosexuality?

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@snood,

Yes, it appears to me that lately you are obsessing over an issue which is, really, not the business of any of us.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Yes, it appears to me that lately you are obsessing over an issue which is, really, not the business of any of us.

Okay. I think you're wrong on several levels, but it's not the first time we'll just have to disagree.

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For the record, yes, there are subjects i obsess over. Threads in which people claim that the civil war was not about slavery, or that Lincoln started that war; threads in which people claim Hitler was not such a bad guy--this subject just doesn't happen to be one of those.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

For the record, yes, there are subjects i obsess over. Threads in which people claim that the civil war was not about slavery, or that Lincoln started that war; threads in which people claim Hitler was not such a bad guy--this subject just doesn't happen to be one of those.

And just for that same record, if anyone had wandered onto one of those threads and called you obsessed, your reply would most certainly have been somewhere in the vein of "**** You".

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What's wrong with obsession anyway? I would never have gotten a degree in physics without it.

Some Musings About Sexual Orientation and Stuff

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